Theos-Talk Archives (November 1997 Message tt00324)

>Daniel writes
>> Wasn't HPB ALSO an initiate?
>Yes.
>
>> Why won't you "take" her OWN statements
>> about her OWN life and inspirations? Why won't you "take" the statements
>> about H.P.B. from the INITIATES K.H., M. and Serapis which were made
>during
>> HPB's lifetime?
>Just imagine if all biographies were written according to your criteria;
>they'd be pretty poor works would they not? And in the realm of occultism,
>in the province of secret brotherhoods and the like, facts ordinarily
>available to a biographer are not easily obtained. Unless of course he is
>privy to these secret workings.
>
>> Steiner in fact makes statements about HPB which
>> contradict known historical facts about her life. Compare article(s) in
>> THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY.
>Well, see my last posting to MKR on John King. H.P.B. was also slippery on
>the facts.
>
> YCTIOLI
>New acronym,
>Bruce

Bruce,

I would love to see your last posting to MKR on John King. I didn't
see it please repost it.

You may already know about the following sources. But I point them
out to you:

"Dr. Steiner on H.P.B." by H.J Spierenburg, THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY,
July, 1986

"Dr. Rudolf Steiner on the Mahatmas", Part I, by H.J . Spierenburg,
THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY, October, 1986

"Dr. Rudolf Steiner on the Mahatmas", Part II, by H.J. Spierenburg,
THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY, January, 1987.

Speaking of being "slippery with the facts", here is just one example
of Steiner's "hold" on the facts:

"As regards the above statement by Dr. Steiner that the Mahatma K.H.
is reported to have said that he was actually John King, I venture to maintain
here that such a passage does VERY DEFINITELY NOT OCCUR in Olcott's
book!" Caps added. Reference is to Olcott's PEOPLE FROM THE OTHER
WORLD. H. J. Spierenburg writing on p. 168 of "Dr. Steiner on H.P.B."

Looking through my copy of PEOPLE FROM THE OTHER WORLD,
I do not find such a statement either.

H.J. Spierenburg points out a number of other historical mistakes that
Rudolf Steiner makes about H.P.B. and her Teachers.

In one of the articles cited above, H.J. Spierenburg writes that
according to Rudolf Steiner:

"The Mahatma Letters were . . . dictated by the 'false Mahatma K.H.'"

And Dr. Spierenburg quotes Rudolf Steiner who said:

"This same John King is the one who caused Sinnett's books to be
produced by precipitation, both the letters of the first book THE OCCULT
WORLD and the second book ESOTERIC BUDDHISM."

[NOTE: And according to another "initiate", Alice Bailey, it was H.P. Blavatsky
herself who wrote most of the Mahatma Letters!!!]

In fact, in these Spierenburg articles we find that Steiner the Initiate
makes various deragotory remarks about HPB, the Master KH as well as about
THE SECRET DOCTRINE.

What were the "sources" of Dr. Steiner's statements on HPB? And why should
we accept that Steiner KNOWS MORE than HPB and her Masters? Why should
we believe that Steiner has a SUPERIOR source of knowledge?

Bruce, again I ask you (since you did not really answer these questions):

Why won't you "take" HPB's OWN statements
about her OWN life and inspirations? Why won't you "take" the statements
about H.P.B. from the INITIATES K.H., M. and Serapis which were made
during HPB's lifetime?

You seem to prefer the statements of the Initiate Steiner.

Most of these statements by HPB and the other Initiates mentioned were
written in private documents, letters, etc. which were not printed until decades
after HPB's death.

And if you are "skeptical" of these primary source documents, please tell
us what documents you rely on which are MORE reliable and accurate?

Also do you accept Alice Bailey's "version" of history concerning
HPB?

Daniel