Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00562)

April 27th 1998

 Comments from Dallas ( inserted )

>From: "Jerry Schueler" <gschueler@netgsi.com>
>Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 6:55 PM
>Subject: Re:The "Eternal Present: and KARMA

>>
>>I would not call HPB and ML "skimpy" -- to me the statements
>>there are the basis from which we can start. Would you
seriously
>>call either ISIS or the S D "skimpy "
>
>Then how about vague? or "subject to a whole lot of
interpretation?"


 Agreed


>The point I was trying to make, Dallas, is that if HPB's
writings were
>as complete and far-reaching as you seem to think they are, then
>please explain to me why the TS split into so many pieces over
the
>years,



 You can't blame HPB for the problems that her students
make.

 All of us have some biases -- we learned, or constructed
them.

 In fairness to HPB, we could make a distinction between
her
 statements and our ideas about what she meant.

 IMO her writings are intended to make us think, she did
not set out
 to do our thinking for us.

 Theosophy, she claims, is a historical record. She (and
Masters)
 provide therein not only "doctrine," but the paths to
verification.

 I 'harp' on coherency and consistency -- as a whole,
Each statement
 con be found to intermesh with others -- sometimes it
takes time to
 prove this to one's self. Dal.



and how her basic teachings such as Root Races, Planes,
>and Globes, are so confusing and have been explained by writers
>in so many diverse ways.



 I would not call those "basic." They are brought in
because Sinnett
 and Hume in their correspondence brought those up, and an
explanation
 of the Theosophical (historical record) had to be made so
as to adjust
 undersanding (from the theories of our Evolutionists --
Darwin, Huxley
 etc.,.) -- to the "facts" of what actually happened, and
of which the only
 records available from old literature were myths and
legends -- and very
 vague. The "Wisdom-Religion" offers facts they aver.

 Personally I agree -- it is difficult to disentangle and
codify from
 the information that is in the S D the sequence and
nature of the Globes
 (7), the circling around the Globes (7 times, and each
circling being called a
 "Round"), and then, the 7 Races ( which are, IMO, periods
of TIME rather
 than ethnic divisions ) and make up the 7 periods of time
that mark, actually,
 humanity's progress (as a whole) on each Globe during any
particular Round.

 As I see it: 7 Globes (which correspond to the great
Cosmic "principles"
 of possible development) form
the basic pattern

 The mass of human Monads in their evolution circle ( or
work live and
 experience so as to progress
and grow in wisdom)
 these "7 Globes" 7 times.
Each circling being called
 a Round."

 On any one Globe, there are 7 subdivisions, and these
were arbitrarily
 named "Races." -- as I
understand they are only
 vast periods of time, during
which the human egoic
 subdivisions evolve their
characteristic natures.
 This process is not tocreate
ethnic sob-divisions of
 skin color, or of tradition,
but rather so that the
 reincarnting Egos ( Monads)
would have the benefit of
 every kind of experience and
develop their inner
 faculties in diverse
environments -- and thus achieve
 eventually, through multiple
experiences a knowledge
 of the one UNITY and of
universal Brotherhood as a fact.

 The whole process of evolution is apparently designed to
give every Monad
 an opportunity of refining
and gaining control over every
 aspect of its own embodied,
material, personal "self" as
 well as over the comparable
environment, which changes
 and alters within the great
cycles of planetary, Solar
 System and Cosmic
evolutionary change, on which we
 are given practically
nothing, though they are implied.

 That is how I understand it, in brief. And that will
create room for opinions
 to differ some more.

 As you hint, if I am not wrong, some later writers,
trying to simplify and codify
 have painted extraordinarily
confusing "pictures" of what
 they envisaged. So we have
many times more trouble, if
 we approached HPB's and
Masters "original teachings"
 with those ideas already
embedded in our own minds.

Dal.


Why do students argue over doctrine
>here on the Internet? I submit that the reason is that she left
a lot
>of room to wiggle around in (maybe on purpose?) and gave us a
>lot of sketchy ideas but little real details.



 Again I agree, but in studying the S D and other
writings on the subject, I
 believe these can be resolved into a more
simple (?) picture, but it
 takes a lot of time to do this, and
incidentally, as one proceeds the
 rest of the "Fundemanetal Propositons" have
to be also mastered,
 and used. Nothing is "isolated" in
Theosophical philosophy, as I
 see it. All is integrated, and cooperation
is the great key.

 As to basic, or core ideas/teachings:

 Incidentally, I would call the ideas of UNIVERSAL
UNITY, INDIVIDUAL
 IMMORTALITY (Monadic), KARMIC RESPONSIBLITIY,
THE
 RETURN OF CYCLIC similarities in terms of
analogetic situations,
 HUMAN SOLIDARITY and BROTHERHOOD -- these
several
 ideas/teachings are more fundamental than
"Rounds and Races."

 Statements about the "Rounds and Races" give
us a view of the
 process of all these in the working place --
our world -- where
 our own and others' progress is being made.
We will not be able
 to make Theosophial doctrines dovetail with
the theories of our
 technological and developing Science. It is
the other way round.
 Science will grow closer and closer to
theosophy and its facts.
 But this will sound like an outlandish claim
until one reviews (as
 using the ON THE LOOKOUT section of THEOSOPHY
magazine
 for the past 83 years of its publication --
there one can trace the
 approach of scientific ideas and theories to
Theosophy again and
 again. And that is a record that is valuable
to access.
 [ THEOSOPHY magazine is a monthly published
by the ULT.]

 KARMA alone marks, to my understanding, the
most important of all
 our concepts, as it brings us to see the
personal and INDIVIDUAL
 responsiblity that we all bear for our
choices to act, think or emote.

 REINCARNATION of the immortal Monad (Ego) is
the proces whereby
 we continually have hands-on learning, and
the karma of our choince
 (good or bad) is balanced into a final
harmony -- which is, finally,
 perfection of access to common and universal
KNOWLEDGE that is
 the inheritance of all Humanity. This
process refines and ennobles
 what we call today our "Personality," the
so-called "Lower Self."

 That is how i understand it.
 Best wishes to you, as usual,
Dal.



If she really was initiated
>into Tibetan Buddhism, then her teachings should jive reasonably
>well with the slew of new books available today by Tibetans.
They
>do in some areas, but not in others. Tibetans talk about realms
>(planes) and bodies/principles (rainbow body, dream body,
>bardo body, etc) but no word so far on Root Races or Globes
>or planetary chains.


--

 As far as I am able to determine from the writings
available, HPB was
 initiated, not into Tibetan Buddhism, but into
the Great Original
 Lodge of Adepts of all races and places, which
employs the
 Himalayas as an inaccessible retreat. Looking at
it geographically
 there are literally thousands of miles of
chaotic, abrupt and barren
 territory -- in which armies could be lost, and
of which the most
 discerning of spy equimpmant would detect little
or nothing of the
 presence or absence of a community -- especially
if it was (as hinted)
 under ground as to physical location of libraries
and records, etc...

 On the surface the Tibetan "Buddhism" is of
several kinds, and our
 researches only produce the barest scratchings of
the surface of
 their literature. As usual, the Orientalist
approach is from the
 superficial way of thinking we all have in
common. If we cannot glean
 some concept of real "Esotericism," or of real
"Occultism" from what
 HPB writes in ISIS or the SECRET DOCTRINE we will
remain where
 we are in thought. It is my retrospective
observation that one has to
 be able to grasp and follow (mentally) all the
implications of Theosophical
 doctrine and presentation. And this can only be
done individually.
 But most of us, including me, are impatient, and
obsessed with the idea
 that if we cannot learn it in a minute and a half
it is too burdensome and
 probably too fanciful for further consideration.
Our minds flit and fly.

 The old sage Patanjali in his "Yoga Aphorisms"
 Try and get a copy
 from the ULT of W. Q. Judge's rendition. ]
illustrates what the difficulties
 of taming and harnessing the mind and the
emotional nature is.

 All the best to you, and continue to
enjoy, Dal.


 Jerry S. SNIP