Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00206)

K. Paul Johnson wrote:

> One example of deliberate untruth, from TMR:
>
> ...Krishnavarma is described by HPB in letters she wrote her Aunt
> Nadyezhda from New York in 1877.  She mentions a Krishnavarma who
> had come to New York from Multan in the Punjab by cart (?!) and
> was staying with the Founders.  He had praised Nadyezhda's last
> letter to HPB and forwarded it to Swami Dayananda.  HPB proceeds
> to tell of a trip "almost to California" that she and Olcott had
> taken with Krishnavarma:
>
> In Milwaukee and Nevada alll the ladies were all the time
> walking near our windows and the terrace where we were sitting to
> look at Krishnavarma; he is exceptionally beautiful although of
> the color of a light coffee.  In his long white pyjama dress and
> a white narrow turban on his head with diamonds on his neck and
> in bare feet he is really a curious sight among the Americans in
> black coats and white collars...When one sees him the first time
> he seems not more than 25, but there are moments he looks like a
> 100 years old man.(HPB Speaks, vol. 1, pp. 198-99)
>
> The facts: Swami Dayananda's disciple Krishavarma never visited
> the TS Founders in America, first meeting them in Bombay in 1879.
> They had corresponded prior to departure with him and other Arya
> Samaj members.  Olcott and HPB never went together to Milwaukee
> or to Nevada.  And all the details are invented.
>
> What does this tell us about HPB?


Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:

>Paul's example of Krishavarma also raises another point regarding
>whether a statement is true, untrue, incorrect or a lie ("an untruth").
>In the case, the source is a series of letters published as "HPB
>Speaks."  This is a series of letters that suddenly appeared in Europe
>under suspicious circumstances and were in the possession of a man who
>was trying to sell them to the highest bidder.  Several theosophical
>historians have already posed the opinion that these letters are filled
>with historical inaccuracies and statements that conflict with
>statements that HPB makes in other letters that we know to be
>authentic.  Therefore, I believe that in the name of fairness, an
>historian is obligated to first qualify that the authenticity of the
>evidence is in dispute before presenting it.  If these letters are
>indeed not authentic, then the incorrect information is not HPB's fault,
>but the forger's, who we can safely assume created a "lie" or an
>"untruth" if you prefer.  If the letters are authentic, then it still
>leaves the question: what would be HPBs motivation for writing this?



Daniel H. Caldwell comments:

I believe there are several "confusions" in both Paul and Jerry's
postings.

First of all, HPB's letter quoted from HPB SPEAKS, vol. 1, pp. 198-99
is misdated.  My research indicates 1878 as the probable date.  I have
two good reasons for this opinion.  A careful reading of the
letter should uncover those reasons.

Secondly, this same letter appears to mention TWO Krishnavarmas.
The first one is referred to in the text quoted above by Paul.  But in
the same letter on p. 200, HPB writes:  "The *second* Krishnavarma
Sheyamaji
the chief apostle and pupil of our Swami will come for the next
winter here to teach."

Turning to Jerry's comments, he writes:

>In the case [under discussion?], the source is a series of letters published as "HPB
>Speaks."  This is a series of letters that suddenly appeared in Europe
>under suspicious circumstances and were in the possession of a man who
>was trying to sell them to the highest bidder.  Several theosophical
>historians have already posed the opinion that these letters are filled
>with historical inaccuracies and statements that conflict with
>statements that HPB makes in other letters that we know to be
>authentic.

Jerry, are you confusing letters?  HPB SPEAKS is in 2 volumes and is
a compilation of HPB's letters obtained from *various* sources.  In Jean
Overton Fuller's BLAVATSKY AND HER TEACHERS, one finds an appendix (pp
235-238) devoted to "The 'Bolt' or Dondoukoff-Korsakoff Letters."
Ms. Fuller writes:

"There is one collection of [sixteen] letters. . . purporting to have
been written by Madame Blavatsky to Prince Dondoukoff-Korsakoff,
Governor-
General of Odessa. . . . The letters are dated from August 1881 to June
1884."

A Mr. Pierre Bolt was trying to sell them to Adyar and
Point Loma Theosophists. Etc. Etc.

Ms. Fuller believes THESE letters are forgeries. They were
published by C. Jinarajadasa in HPB SPEAKS, volume II, pp. 11-159.

On the other hand, Paul is quoting from a letter in Vol I of HPB
SPEAKS.
THIS letter is one of three HPB letters to her relatives purchased
about 1947 at an auction of "some manuscripts...from the library
of the late Earl of Crawford and Balcarres" in England.

As far as I can tell, Ms. Fuller does *not* doubt the authenticity of
any of these three HPB letters.  In fact, she quotes from one of them on
p.
57 of her HPB biography.  And from the context, she appears to believe
HPB wrote the letter quoted.

I hope these clarifications will get Jerry and Paul back on the
"track".  And
I do hope that Dallas and other Blavatsky students will attempt to
answer
Paul's comments and conclusions concerning this "Krishnavarma" letter of
HPB's.