Theos-Talk Archives (April 2000 Message tt00053)

Thank you.  Have followed the messages on this site for two months and am growing weary
of the petty bickering.  I thought this was a theosophy discussion site not the fact checkers
at the New Yorker.

"Light is life.......both are electricity."

 HPB


Where does it take you?

Spencer

"barrett w. culmback" wrote:

> Having followed this 'thread' from its inception, would like to say,
> speaking only for my 'self,' of course:
>
> 1.  this matter of historical Theosophical 'personalities,'
> 'chosen' or otherwise, is a side-issue.
>
> 2.  much prefer dicussions regarding the theory/practice of Theosophy
> as presented by its Founders.
>
> 3.  it has been said that the 'real history of the Movement' has
> not been, and cannot be, written ... it's an Oral Tradition, in
> spite of all the written words, an 'unwritten philosophy', to use
> the phrase of F.M.Cornford.
>
> 4.  The physical-plane details of the lives of beings like HPB and
> WQJ are misleading, at best.  Perhaps a little more attention to
> several of the many implications of their articles on 'occultism'
> would be helpful.
>
> 5.  "Those who know, do not say.  Those who say, do not know."
> Lao Tzu.  What do any of us 'know' of the 'occult' side of HPB,
> WQJ, Crosibe?  Only what we read ... and, why did any of them
> write what they did?
>
> 6.  "If you want to know us, study our Philosophy.  If you want to
> serve us, serve our Humanity."  Mahatma M.
>
> 7.  Would prefer the debates-with-agendas to be taken off-list.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Barrett Culmback
>
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:02:46 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >Dear Dallas,
> >The Eclectic Theosophist is as reprint available still from Point Loma
> >Publications, San Diego, CA.
> >Please email Mr Kenneth Small mailto:events@wisdomtraditions.com. I am sure
> >he can help you.
> >
> >Their homepage is http://www.wisdomtraditions.com/
> >
> >What a luck that teh UNCENSORED theos-talk still exists.
> >
> >Best, Frank
> >
> >>
> >> April 17th 2000
> >>
> >> Dear Frank:
> >>
> >> I just read yours (copied below).
> >>
> >> I would be glad if you could help me with additional information.
> >>
> >> I see that you have referred me to a magazine ECLECTIC
> >> THEOSOPHIST that is now out of print.  Would you care to let me
> >> have a copy of the relevant passages ?  Or tell me where I can
> >> access this material to read it ?
> >>
> >> I have put some notes below in your letter and would be glad to
> >> have information as asked for there, if available.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >>
> >> Dallas
> >>
> >> ==============================
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
> >> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Frank
> >> Reitemeyer
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 7:52 AM
> >> To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
> >> Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: DTB = F ? Re: Joe and Dallas on Mrs.
> >> Katherine Tingley and her relationship to William Q. Judge
> >>
> >>
> >> FR Dear Dallas,
> >>
> >> information about Crosbie's view about KT before and after he was
> >> kicked out
> >> by her can for example be found in:  The Eclectic Theosophist
> >> Nos. 37/3, 39/8 or 101/5.
> >>
> >> DTB According to that which Crosbie said, he RESIGNED.  The entry
> >> made in the List of Members (I am told) is not clear as to why he
> >> left, it has been smudged so as to make it illegible.  It does
> >> not say "Kicked out."
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> FR That Crosbie accepted first KT is a matter of fact, oral and
> >> by documents.
> >>
> >> DTB Yes I know this and have seen these.
> >> ------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> FR Also, that KT has had the same tulku powers as Judge and that
> >> they worked
> >> together in esoteric matters.
> >>
> >> DTB Where, and who says this ?  What are "tulku" powers ?
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> FR Her co-workers confirmed as witnesses that she was in direct
> >> connection with
> >> the Masters.
> >>
> >> DTB Where is this said ?
> >> ---------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> FR Please let me emphazize that I do NOT underestimate the value
> >> of the
> >> important work of the ULT.  I only try to balance out what was
> >> too one-sided
> >> said against KT by Jerome before.
> >>
> >> DTB Understood.  But the "balance" still needs to be given,
> >> please.  As far as I can see you are quoting from secondary
> >> sources.  I would like to be able to get to the primary
> >> sources -- then we will have the FACTS and not opinions to
> >> consider.
> >> ---------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> Frank
> >>
> >> ==================
> >>
> >> > April 16th 2000
> >> >
> >> > Dear Frank:
> >> >
> >> > You make some important and to me startling statements.
> >> > Would you be able to let know what are the SOURCE of those
> >> > statements?  Where can I find any documents that support them?
> >>
> >> > SNIP
> >> >
> >> > That which you offer is quite unsupported.
> >> > Is it only opinion or is it fact ?
> >> >
> >> > Dallas
> >> >
> >> > ================================
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From:  Behalf Of Frank Reitemeyer
> >> > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 7:20 PM
> >> > To: Theos-Talk@Theosophy.Com;
> >> > Subject: Theos-World Re: [bn-study] Re: Joe and Dallas on Mrs.
> >> > Katherine Tingley and her relationship to William Q. Judge
> >> >
> >>
> >> FRANK to JEROME
> >>
> >>
> >> > Guy, you really don't know of what you are talking about.
> >> > KT never held any seances,
> >>
> >> DTB I have a copy of a letter by Mr. A. Neresheimer that narrates
> >> one.
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> FR as HPB never did, too.
> >> > KT was trained in the same fashion as HPB and WQJ for her task
> >> in
> >> > the outer  world.
> >>
> >> DTB Where is there evidence about this ?  Who says this ?  I know
> >> that this is claimed about her, but I have not seen any evidence
> >> of it.  Note:
> >>
> >> KT joined the TS about 3 years before Mr. Judge's death.
> >>
> >> WQJ was a designated a "Chela of 13 years" by HPB in 1888.  By
> >> 1896 when he died he was by then 20 years a "chela ."
> >> Additionally I have seen evidence that the Masters dealt directly
> >> with him.  I have seen no evidence so far, that KT dealt direct
> >> with the Masters, although this has been claimed for her.
> >> -------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> FR KT was the paraclete and the saver of Theosophy in USA.
> >>
> >> DTB Do we have a Source for this statement ?
> >> ---------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> FR > All that WAS accepted even by a Robert Crosbie.
> >> > But when Crosbie  was kicked out by KT, he began his rumors and
> >> > dirty talking against KT
> >>
> >> DTB Have  you any sources for this?  Who says this ?  Where is it
> >> said ?
> >> According to that which Crosbie said, he RESIGNED.  The entry
> >> made in the List of Members (I am told) is not clear as to why he
> >> left, it has been smudged so as to make it illegible.  It does
> >> not say "Kicked out."
> >> ---------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> FR and then founded his ULT.
> >>
> >> DTB Allow me a slight change here:  it was not "his ULT" but "the
> >> ULT."  He is not found to have made any propriety claims
> >> concerning the ULT.
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Frank we seem to be dealing with things at second hand, hence:
> >>
> >> I am separately publishing some facts concerning the ULT, its
> >> policies and its operations, for you and others to read. and
> >> think about.
> >> ------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> > Best, Frank
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> Jerome wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > Katherine Tingley took care of Judge while he was dying and
> >> > > external observers mistook this as some kind of special
> >> > > relationship.  Sorry! there is plenty of hard evidence that
> >> the
> >> > > real connection thru HPB and Judge was elsewhere.  I have had
> >> > > people stare me straight in the face and say that Judge
> >> > attended  seances with Katherine Tingley ---- so much for
> >> fantasy!!
> >>
> >> Some  day the real story will come out.
> >>
> >> > > best,
> >> > > jerome
> >> >===================================
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
> >>
> >> Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
> >> teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
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> >
> >
> >-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
> >
> >Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and
> >teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of
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>
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>
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>
> "It is understandable that a child might fear the darkness; less so that an adult would fear the light."  Plato
>
> -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
>
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