Theos-Talk Archives (June 2000 Message tt00079)

As an aside to all this Christ nonsense - Has anybody read Sir laurence
Gardeners 'Bloodline of the Holy Grail' - Quite conclusive methinks....


OM

nos



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of LeonMaurer@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:06 AM
> To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World - Christ in Nairobi.
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 06/06/00 1:33:32 AM, tlorentz@telusplanet.net writes:
>
> >Bart,
> >
> >>  Well, make up your mind. Was he Jesus,
> >>or Maitreya? Jesus, if he ever
> >>existed, was born 2000 years ago. The guy
> >>in the photo didn't look THAT
> >>old. He looked especially good for a dead guy.
> >
> >The gathering was a religious gathering of 6000 Christians.  They
> >recognized Him (IN THEIR HEARTS!!!) as Jesus (Christ).  They weren't
> >looking at the color of His skin or whatever. They knew it in
> their hearts
> >and were proclaiming it.
>
> I think that Bart makes a very good point.  If recognizing Jesus
> "in their hearts" by devout, blind believing Christians (which is
> what that
> "religion" has been preaching without any foundation, other than
> hearsay, for
> thousands of years) is any sort of "evidence" that either Jesus
> ever existed,
> that he will or can return "in the flesh", or that the "character
> who showed
> up at their meeting is anything more than a charlatan, is very
> poor evidence
> indeed, and does not belong in a forum of theosophists...  Who
> are taught to
> test every metaphysical or religious idea for themselves... The complete
> antithesis of what is preached by this and many other "organized"
> religions.
>
> There are at least two things a true theosophist cannot be... One is a
> worshipper of any God, figurehead or authority... Another, is a
> member of any
> religion that denies the validity or the rule of karma and the
> doctrine of
> reincarnation (coupled with individual, self determined choice,
> based on self
> devised study) as determiners of the fates or destinies of all sentient
> beings... (Thus, totally denying any sort of personal "God" or
> "Savior" as
> intermediary.)
> >
> >Later, Ben confirmed that the man, in fact, was Maitreya.  And
> many stories
> >since and after have corresponded to this, apart from Ben.  The people in
> >the crowd did not know Him as Maitreya, which is His personal name.  They
> >recognized him as Christ (or Jesus).  People from other faiths have
> >believed Him to be Krishna, or the Imam Mahdi or whatever is their
> >representative.  They see Him as their Divine Representative.
>
> Good for them -- if that's what they want to believe.  But even
> more reason
> to be suspicious of the motives of both Creme and Maitreya.  What
> has this
> crowd's "organized" and probably brain washed religious belief,
> based on pure
> emotion and mob psychology, as well as the "charisma" of the so called
> "Christ" figure who appeared before them (and fulfilled their pre
> conceived
> expectations) -- got to do with to do with "truth" or acceptance
> of such a
> belief by theosophists?  Who, are taught that such blind and irrational
> gullibility is completely wrong and dangerous, as well as the easy to use
> tools of those clever ones who seek to prey on, dominate and/or control
> masses of people for their own ends.  Even if those ends were in exact
> conformance with theosophical principles, such methods would
> still be wrong,
> and in violation of theosophical principles of noninterference.
> That is why
> the Masters have repeatedly told us that they cannot take part
> directly in
> human affairs. Even Jesus (if he existed as reported) -- as a
> Hebrew Rebbe,
> could never have imagined forming a separate, organized religion --
> especially, around himself as its figurehead.
> >
> >I note a specific air of condescension in your letters Bart.  If you're
> >really not serious about it, or you feel you need to work your karma out
> >on me, then I would prefer we just drop it and change the subject.
>
> I can't speak for Bart... But, I think you should drop this
> subject.  For one
> reason -- that this is not a forum to discuss or proselytize any of the
> beliefs or practices of Christianity -- whose record of
> conformance to any of
> the objects of the theosophical movement, or to the understanding
> of the true
> nature of reality and the fundamental principles underlying karma and
> reincarnation, is very poor indeed.
>
> This insistence on promoting characters such a Creme and his
> belief in the
> return of the Christ, Mahdi, Maitreya, or Messiah, appears to be
> just another
> attempt to Christianize, Islamize, Hinduize or Hebrewize
> Theosophy. If you
> are a tool or mouthpiece of such untheosophical actions, you
> might as well
> stop talking about it on this forum, or bear the brunt of at
> least my counter
> arguments -- if not Bart's (whose comments, along with mine,
> might appear to
> you as condescension -- but certainly is not from my point of view).
>
> When we hear either Creme or his Maitreya side kick begin to teach
> theosophical truths to their Christian followers, and compare their words
> with the political agendas of their close associates and
> promoters, we can
> then judge whether or not Maitreya is a real representative or
> agent of the
> "Masters," a Master or Adept himself -- or a complete charlatan.  In any
> event, we can only recognize them by their fruits.  And, so far,
> the fruits
> of these characters are pretty meager... No better than gratuitous
> platitudes, in fact... And, highly conducive to the wary
> presumption by open
> minded theosophists that they may be charlatans or "fakirs" -- as many
> similar, self proclaimed "descended Masters" have most likely been before
> them, or now appearing along with them.
> >
> >It is sometimes difficult to contain all of the details of a story, that
> >has stretched over 20 years, in the span of one or two e-mails.  There
> >will, of course, appear to be inconsistencies.  It takes effort to search
> >out all the details and get the full picture. It is true that this story
> >*could* turn out to be a billion different "what-ifs".  If you are simply
> >bent on pouring out streams of suspicion and speculation without *really*
> >looking into it then what is your point?  Please save your energy.
>
> Better, if you save your own energy.  Theosophy has been around
> for over a
> hundred years, and as yet, no one has found any inconsistencies in the
> original teachings.  Real theosophists can have nothing but
> suspicion about
> the validity of any and all appearances of so called "Masters" -- and are
> enjoined by their teachers, as well as by the nature of theosophy
> itself, to
> seriously question the credibility of any claimants who profess
> to speak for
> the Masters -- including all self proclaimed "channelers",
> "avatars,"  and
> "gurus," from Leadbeater, Bailey and Profit, to krishnamurti,
> Rajneesh and
> Mahesh Yogi, even as far out as L Ron Hubbard, and others like
> them -- who
> either form their own religions, or attempt to twist the
> followers of others
> to their own points of view for various personal reasons -- well
> intentioned
> or otherwise.  Even HPB tells us to question, from the point of view of
> skepticism and agnosticism, "everything" that she teaches us --
> and then form
> our own convictions about what is true and what is not.
>
> With this in mind, let each of us go about our own individual search for
> truth and the seeking of our own Master -- "within the sanctuary
> of our own
> hearts and minds" -- and with resort to no vicarious atonement or
> guidance
> from living teachers, except from those who, being more advanced than
> ourselves along the path, can help direct us individually through its
> intricate windings, and warn us of the dangers along the practical
> "meditative" route leading to adeptship and ultimate enlightenment.
>
> Best wishes, and "May good karma be all our desserts."
>
> LHM
>
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