Theos-Talk Archives (June 2000 Message tt00188)

Doesn't sound much different from the USA today....

nos



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com
> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of LeonMaurer@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 4:08 PM
> To: theos-talk@theosophy.com
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Maitreya appearance
>
>
>
> In a message dated 06/08/00 2:34:25 AM, benge@adsnet.com writes:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >> That's true... But, since when was the Christian theology and
> belief system
> >> (which incidentally, denies karma and reincarnation -- which the Jews
> don't)
> >> the "reality" of the Jewish religion?
> >
> >Karma is simply "Be not deceived, God is not mocked.  Whatever ye sow, so
> >surely shall ye reap".  Reincarnation doesn't need anyone to
> believe it.  It
> >either is, or isn't, but it doesn't change this life in anyway, except to
> >possibly promise Justice.  The concept of reincarnation is comforting
> >because it promises justice.  For me, I have no knowledge of a past life
> >or future life.  All I have is now.
>
> Then why don't you use it effectively and through your own self
> devised and
> self determined efforts, try to determine the basis and prove,
> for yourself,
> either the truth or untruth of the reality of reincarnation.  Then we can
> talk about it reasonably.  But, not, if we just hypocritically accept it,
> while believing in a mostly contradictory religion, just because
> we like the
> idea of justice.  There is a scientific reason why that justice
> is built into
> the foundation of the universe and why universal brotherhood (not
> brotherhood
> among selected groupings) is a law of nature, that can only be
> expressed by
> understanding reincarnation, karma and the apparent separation
> between spirit
> and matter, along with the idea of an eternal Spiritual
> consciousness that is
> totally responsible for its own choices of action.
>
> This completely negates the Christian idea of a personal God or
> "savior" who
> is the Supreme Dictator, and who, as a "personality" can take
> vengeance and
> make judgments that can send us off after only one life on Earth to the
> permanent fires of Hell or the pleasures of Heaven.  How can you
> reconcile
> that with the Truths of theosophy?  Or, with the idea that real
> "Justice" can
> only come about through the action of karma over many lifetimes?  Or with
> that of Jesus, himself, who spoke only of the principles behind his own
> religion? Which is, pure Hebrew Kabbala, and which was and is still is in
> perfect agreement with theosophical principles -- including the
> idea of an
> unknown Deific Principle (Ein-Soph or "No Thing") THAT has no
> conscious or
> personal relationship to the manifest universe, or its individual beings,
> except through the veil of its first emanation, Kether, or
> Mulaprakriti --
> who is, in turn, followed by and dependent upon its further
> emanations into
> the nine intelligent "powers" or "builders" of Nature -- which,
> themselves,
> cannot act other than in conformance with the laws of karma.
>
> Unfortunately, there can be some bad apples in every bushel (even
> throughout
> the so called "hierarchy") who like to control everything for
> themselves.  It
> may be that one of their next lower "emanaters" pictured himself as a
> "Personal God" and twisted Christianity -- when he had the
> opportunity in his
> role of "Satan" -- into a contrived "religion" justifying his
> dictatorship
> over the lives of all its followers while, hypocritically, using
> a wise Hebrew
>  figurehead along with his valid "Heart Doctrine" teachings as a
> "Front" for
> its totally fallacious separatist theology and false dogmas.
>
> If their original figurehead, Jesus (if he ever actually existed as they
> picture him) were alive anytime from after the third century
> until today, he
> would have denounced them all as scoundrels, usurpers and deniers
> of the true
> Wisdom Religion and its "Masters" (whether these Masters were
> Hindu/Buddhist,
> Hebrew/Kabbalist, Muslim/Sufi, Taoist, or other similar esoteric
> religions).
> Vide, the concocted story of the three Magi, the Star of Bethlehem, that
> attempts to prove that the coming of Jesus was sanctified by all
> the other
> great religions of the world, Mazdaism, Buddhism and Taoism.
> Unfortunately,
> history proves that they all had their own great teachers who
> each brought
> the identical theosophical teachings to their own peoples, as the Rebbe
> Yeshua did to his.
>
> BTW, "As they sow, so shall they reap" was spoken by John (as a
> parable for
> karma) who was more of a philosopher at the time he said it than a
> Christian... As we know them, after they formed a "Mother Church"
> (which he
> identified as "The Whore of Babylon in Revelations) around Jesus as a
> figurehead and "idol," along with the "Virgin Mary" as part of a
> so called
> "Holy Trinity of "Father, Son and Holy Ghost... A dogma, that,
> anthropomorphizes, materializes, and in a sense, trivializes --
> as well as
> prevents the learning, by those trapped in Christian theology, of what is
> essentially an esoteric reality of great significance to ones
> understanding
> of the laws of karma, the meaning of "eternal life," the
> inevitability and
> essentiality of reincarnation, etc.  And, also prevents the
> recognition of
> the fallacies of Christian fundamentalist dogmas of a personal God,
> resurrection, Heaven, Hell, Satan, creationism, vicarious
> atonement, Papal
> infallibility, denial of theosophical scientific evolution, etc., etc.
>
> Isn't it far better to practice Universal Brotherhood because we
> understand
> the unity of all, and have compassion and empathy for all beings,
> than to do
> it because someone tells us to, or threatens us with fire and
> brimstone if we
> don't?
> >
> >The reality of the Jewish religion was not to reserve one day,
> the Sabbath,
> >for God.  Each day we live like any other.  The Sabbath was sort of a
> >minimum.  The sacrifices were supposed to be something given
> freely to God
> >that a person values, rather than a minimum payment.  God the Father was
> >supposed to be "Daddy" -- personal.  We are supposed to immerse ourself
> >in the way of life God wants, happily.  God gave the Jews a set
> of minimums
> >that they cast in concrete.
>
> Those incoherent remarks, based on the dogma of an anthropomorphized,
> separate and personal "God," are totally without any foundation in either
> reason, intuition or reality.  There is no "wanting" on the part of the
> actual, impersonal "Godhead" (Ein Soph, or no "thing") -- which, based on
> Hebrew Cabalistic truths, are identical to the original teachings of the
> Rebbe Yeshua (whom the Christians call Jesus)... And which has no
> relationship, whatsoever, to the dogmas and edicts taught
> throughout all of
> Christianity today -- except for some enlightened Christian
> mystics, Jews for
> Jesus, etc., who understand and accept theosophical principles, while
> practicing the original Heart Doctrine of the one who had the
> wisdom of the
> Christos that all his Hebrew Essene, Buddhist, Taoist, etc., 'brother"
> rabbis, gurus, teachers, etc. had.
>
> One can accept Jesus as a guide and teacher, realize his as well
> as one's own
> connection to the Godhead or divine source, and even call oneself a
> Christian, without having to accept any dogmas of the Christian Church or
> their interpretations of the Bible -- as there are many
> descendants of the
> Hebrews who call themselves, Jews, and respect the same Godhead,
> who also do
> not practice any of the Dogmas of the organized Judaism that grew
> out of its
> original Cabalistic teachings (that are, incidentally, identical to
> theosophy).
>
> It's unfortunate that Yeshua could not give out his "pearls" of esoteric
> wisdom at that time, and that it took 2000 years before it was
> possible to do
> so (by the Mahatmas, with the help of HPB).  Perhaps, that recent
> "exposure"
> of the Christian priest's crafty motives, the falsity of their
> personal God
> and their dogmas, and the misuse of Christianity by Hitler and their
> pandering to it, is the reason why the Christian leaders, today, are so
> careful to bend over backwards in "public" support of the Jews,
> and Israel,
> no matter what their politics.  But, It could be that many of
> them still may
> privately condone the distribution of the completely spurious
> "Protocols of
> Zion" and stay very quiet or deny any connection when Christian dominated
> KKK's, skin heads, white supremacists, and other separatist and
> violent hate
> groups use the Christian Bible to justify their ideas and actions.
>
> > > I thought that both Buddha and Jesus > (a/k/a the Rebbe, Joshua) spoke
> > > out solely to reform their respective  religions by taking
> away the power
> of
> >> their self serving priestcrafty rulers...
> >> Joshua, to end the exploitation power of the Rabbi's materialism
> >> and greed, and Guatama, to end the Hindu caste system for
> similar reasons.
> >
> >For sure, Jesus did that.
> >
> >> So, would you kindly explain what "God" you are talking about?
> >
> >To me, God is universal Higher Power in charge of humanity that various
> >people have called Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, etc.
>
> Naming it is not explaining it.  Nevertheless, you are perfectly
> entitled to
> choose anyone or thing that you believe "is in charge of humanity" --
> especially, if you ignorantly fall for the fear of the threatened
> retribution
> that may follow if you don't, or the promised paradise if you do.
>  But, the
> only ONE really "in charge of humanity" is the Self within each
> of us -- that
> we either realize for ourselves, understand the basic karmic laws
> that govern
> its being, and follow its edicts based on the knowledge,
> intuition and wisdom
> gained through our own self devised and self determined
> efforts... Or, we can
> blindly follow the leader's of dogmatic religions who profess to
> be spokesmen
> for their imaginary "God" -- whose dictatorship (as well as their
> own) they
> wish to impose on everyone by inculcating a "blind belief" or
> "faith" in a
> nonexistent God and a false interpretation of theosophical truths -- with
> just enough similarity to our inborn intuitive knowledge to be
> believable, so
> long as we don't use out reason to examine its inconsistencies.
>
> Hitler, black magician that he was, used the same tactics and
> converted most
> of the German (Christian) people whom he knew were well prepared
> to believe
> any mystical hogwash -- so long as it had sufficient christianized
> "authority" (no matter how fallacious or distorted) behind it.
> Not only did
> he claim to have brought a "new dispensation," but he even warned
> us in his
> Mein Kampf, that he intended to anchor his National Socialism
> (Nazi party) on
> the gullibility of most Christians to believe anything told them
> about the
> Jews that denies their "chosen people" status and paints them as
> "communist"
> enemies of the state... And, therefore, would not defend them
> when he used
> Jews as scapegoats and slave labor, while he secretly
> exterminated all their
> Rabbis and knowledgeable intellectuals (including all
> theosophists, BTW) who
> knew the fundamental truths and could, ultimately, expose his nefarious
> scheme.  Of course, we can believe that he was crazy... But, the
> predominantly Christian (mostly Protestant) Germans,
> nevertheless, fell for
> all of his falsities (that were no more far fetched than their
> own Biblical
> misinterpretations and dogmas).  This explains the Power that
> "blind belief"
> and faith in "authorities" gives to those intending to enslave others
> (physically, economically, mentally and/or spiritually) to serve
> their own
> selfish purposes, or their misdirected and sometimes (they think) "good
> intentions"... For which, as said, "Hell is paved with..."
> >
> >>  Also, tell us
> >> if you are parroting the "new dispensation" of Maitreya, or if all that
> >> prophesying is solely your own opinions and beliefs?
> >
> >All I have -- is solely my own opinions and beliefs.  Only.
>
> Based on what? The Christian dogmas? Hearsay? Nothing?  It
> certainly doesn't
> appear (judging from what you say) to have any reasonable basis
> of wisdom or
> synthesized knowledge of universal (scientific, philosophical, or
> religious)
> realities, behind it.
>
> If it's just your groundless and "blind belief" opinions, on the
> other hand,
> then why work so hard to convince us that there is some kind of "new
> dispensation" (based on nothing more than "hearsay") behind that?
>  And why
> harangue us to believe your personally accepted "authority" whose
> ideas and
> opinions also, apparently, are wobbling between fundamental principles of
> theosophy and mostly contradictory Christian theology.  This
> seems to be the
> typical hypocritical stand of those who try to influence others
> by trying to
> keep their feet in more than one camp at a time. Hitler and his crowd did
> just that. They pandered to Christian theology, and gave themselves the
> credentials to bring down a "new dispensation."  So, did most Christian
> missionaries, as they tailored their dogmas to fit in with the
> local pagan
> religions or voodoo's.  God save us from such wonderful "saviors"
> who give us
> a personal God based on such flexible reasoning and contrived
> mores, that it
> can condone almost anything.
>
> Admittedly, Brotherhood, universal or not, as well as selected moral and
> ethical precepts are grounds to compare one religion with
> another, but what's
> so new about Maitreya's dispensation?  All he appears to be doing is
> Christianizing theosophy along the same line of Besant, Leadbeater and
> Bailey,  The only difference, is that behind him stand some
> possibly shady
> characters who may be using him as a tool to put their own ruling
> cabals into
> power -- as the Christians have done for ages since the Holy
> Roman Empire --
> by infiltrating governments (or talking their kings into
> conquering them in
> the name of their God) and then setting themselves up as the only
> politically
> correct religion ... And, thereby, influencing, and sometimes
> controlling,
> the laws that fit their narrow sectarian views and fills the
> coffers of their
> priestcrafty leaders.
>
> Of course there are many Christians, especially among some of the
> Protestant
> sects (although still easy to influence into voting as a block using
> Christian precepts and priestly authorities, along with twisted
> interpretations of the Bible) who do not fit this mode or condone
> the actions
> of "The Mother Church" and its army of Jesuit "enforcers" of the self
> serving, so called "Laws of (a) God," stolen from the Jews -- that they
> cleverly and intentionally fabricated, misinterpreted (and
> twisted all out of
> their reasonable understanding) to suit their own purposes.  It's
> interesting
> that this threatened exposure of their criminality, apparently,
> is the major
> reason for the church sanctioned, false and unreasonable
> accusations, hatred
> and persecution of the Jews throughout Christian history that
> fell right into
> the hands of Hitler and his followers.
> >
> >> So far, all we have heard seems to be nothing but "Big Talk"
> >> without any substance or qualifications.  C'mon... Give us some real
> >> ideas to discuss here, other than all this pointless and endless
> proselytizing
> >> of yet another new Messiah,
> >
> >What would you like to talk about?
>
> Reality. Truth.  Theosophy, and its synthesis of science, religion and
> philosophy, and its better understanding.  Take your pick.
>
> But, my suggestion is that; if you wish to tout these "blind beliefs" of
> yours, and desire to proselytize the wonderful benefits of Christianity,
> while promoting a new "Messiah" along with his "New Dispensation"
> -- that you
> do it on other forums that attract, less discerning and more gullible
> correspondents than this one.
>
> Nevertheless, thanks for giving me the opportunity to put these
> ideas about
> theosophy, in contrast with organized religious brain washing,
> into proper
> perspective, and in wide circulation -- that theosophists might use to
> reinforce their own understandings and convictions, as well as in
> response to
> similar "public" distortions of truth and reality.
>
> LHM
>
> -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com
>
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