Theos-Talk Archives (November 2000 Message tt00195)

Who is it that hides behind the name "Compiler" and what are the 
motives behind these comments?

A lot of people in this forum are fond of cutting and pasting 
quotations for various theosophic sources frequently without comment 
as to their personal understanding of the same. These quotes often 
times seem to me hurled as if they were some kind of weapon at 
someone that causes a thought disturbance in the orthodoxy of the 
society.

Mipham Rinpoche advises in the "Precious Knife of Certainty" to rely 
on the meaning not the words, rely on the definitive meanings not the 
provisinal meanings.

It would therefore seem appropriate in this forum to include the 
specific reference when citing various quotations and some commentary 
of meaning from the posting party.

Sherab


--- In theos-talk@egroups.com, Compiler <compiler@w...> wrote:
> Eugene,
> 
> Maybe these thoughts that you generated in me by your ideas might be
> useful, if valid in any way, according to the Theosophical 
teachings, for
> those more knowledgeable to assist us all with:
> 
> It would seem that "substance" is the other side of the great 
unconditioned
> "All" when it is stirred up, as in vibrational, by the force of 
thinking,
> so that relationships can then be experienced through all the 
phenomea
> (which is this substance in motion) on all of the 
many "conditioned" planes
> of existence that come into existence, are experienced through, and 
then
> fade away leaving each thinker with the "experience" gained for the
> particular cycle, until the next one begins.
> 
> Compiler
> -------
> 
> Eugene Carpenter wrote:
> 
> > If Total Unconditioned Consciousness and Bare Subjectivity
> >
> > is all there is,
> >
> > then what is substance?
> >
> > Could it be that substance is the under-standing of the above?
> >
> > Wouldn't under-standing the above take time and space?
> >
> > Are we not Total Consciousness and Bare Subjectivity
> >
> > gradually understanding who we are?
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sherab Dorje" <sherab@w...>
> > To: <theos-talk@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 9:46 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Point of view- THIS is a Classic example
> >
> > > There is a one to one correspondence with your quote below,
> > > > that "The Universe is Embodied Consciousness" --
> > > > on every possible plane.
> > > and the quote that I posted earlier in this discussion that is
> > > attributed to Lord Maitreya,
> > > "Nothing exists apart from the Mind,
> > > Awareness eventually comes to realize this."
> > >
> > > One could also say in equal truth, Consciousness is the 
Universe or
> > > that the Universe is Conscious. Either way, there is no getting
> > > around the truth that all is in Mind. Awareness is That, 
embodied or
> > > not. It is the non-recognition of that intrinsic awareness that
> > > brings about the embodiment.
> > >
> > > As to whether this is helpful to readers or not would be hard to
> > > determine. If there is some juice in a thread then will get 
legs and
> > > have some participation. If one is drawn to this forum then 
they are
> > > drawn to the Mysteries, that much we have in common. To invoke 
the
> > > Mysteries is to evoke the metaphysical dyanmic between the 
student
> > > and the teacher, the disciple and the guru, the chela and the 
chohan,
> > > the novice and the lama, in other words to teach and to learn.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your comments. There are many discussions taking 
place
> > > here but not all that I can participate in.
> > >
> > > Sherab
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@egroups.com, Compiler <compiler@w...> wrote:
> > > > Sherab,
> > > >
> > > > This may or may not be helpful to some readers:
> > > >
> > > > As I read all of the stimulating scientific discussions here, 
and
> > > not
> > > > personally having a scientific or scholarly bent, just being a
> > > student who
> > > > is a theosophic generalist, so to say, in trying to 
understand it
> > > all, I
> > > > keep clearly in the front of my mind at all times the 
fundamental
> > > > Theosophic statement, assuming that it is true, until proven
> > > otherwise,
> > > > that "The Universe is Embodied Consciousness" -- on every 
possible
> > > plane.
> > > >
> > > > Compiler
> > > > -------
> > > >
> > > > Sherab Dorje wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Discussion indeed! Thank you for your stimulating questions 
and
> > > > > thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > First, some thoughts about Sham's questions after sleeping 
on
> > > them.
> > > > > Good questions require good answers and having just read 
LMH's
> > > > > posting on this subject that needs sometime to digest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given that there is no way to separate the Mind from the
> > > awareness of
> > > > > phenomena what can we understand about these differing 
points of
> > > > > view. Western science regards consciousness as a phenomena 
giving
> > > it
> > > > > substantial form, where as, spiritually regarded, mind 
appears as
> > > an
> > > > > infinitely empty container in which all phenomena manifest 
and has
> > > > > certain inherent qualities.
> > > > >
> > > > > There appears to be no problem with regarding inter-
molecular
> > > space
> > > > > as a kind of primordial substance. What appears to 
awareness, be
> > > that
> > > > > iron or emptyness is really a matter of the state of 
awareness, or
> > > > > state of mind. Substance appears as a state of 
consciousness. In
> > > that
> > > > > as consciousness unfolds or the state of mind changes, as in
> > > death,
> > > > > then what follows is a change in the appearance of 
phenomena or
> > > > > substance. As human beings, we are subjects within certain 
realms
> > > > > where substances conform to their karmic causes. I believe 
that
> > > this
> > > > > is what HPB refers to as the limits beyond which we can go 
not. If
> > > > > there is any way to characterize HPB's work, it is that she 
is
> > > > > showing us the naked reality of our consciousness and 
asking us to
> > > > > examine That.
> > > > >
> > > > > This does not preclude or exclude the consciousness of 
beings that
> > > > > exist at other energetic frequencies or interpenetrating 
planes of
> > > > > being and that are subject to their corresponding realms 
that are
> > > > > just as substantial as iron is in our realm though those
> > > substances
> > > > > may appear to us as space in our realm. So nothing exists 
apart
> > > from
> > > > > the mind, regardless of whatever state the mind is in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another approach we may take to analyze this is to regard
> > > phenomena
> > > > > as effect produced by a cause. Force, must be the sensible
> > > > > appearance of this process, the movement of energetic flux, 
of
> > > > > manifestation or pralaya due to cause. Phenomena appears 
due to
> > > cause
> > > > > and when the cause is removed the phenomena disappears 
without a
> > > > > trace. This also applies to the mind and its state. 
Different
> > > states
> > > > > of Mind come about because of causes so it follows that in 
other
> > > > > states of Mind different phenomena and substance will arise 
in
> > > > > awareness.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not my intent to flippantly reduce the wealth of 
knowledge
> > > > > revealed by science to mere mental clutter, that would be
> > > > > disrespectful nor is it my intent to reduce spiritual views 
of
> > > Mind
> > > > > to an unregardable eternalist view. Science is an ego, 
an "I" that
> > > > > wants to always box things in or find smaller and smaller
> > > > > compartments of usefully quantifiable corresponding 
information.
> > > It
> > > > > does this by generating them with concepts, mental 
constructs.
> > > When
> > > > > one box of concept is complete another larger box is under
> > > > > development somewhere else. The question, is this, are we 
just
> > > > > creating more causes for a larger universe or universes? 
And if
> > > so,
> > > > > then we must examine the motivation for producing these 
causes.
> > > That
> > > > > line of questioning ultimately leads back to the purpose of 
being
> > > > > human. This, I regard, as the highest Theosophical duty.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is a real pleasure to take part in such a stimulating
> > > > > converstation. More on this thread later.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sherab
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >