Theos-Talk Archives (July 2001 Message tt00181)

Dear Frank:

I agree that it would be difficult for me to explain these. So
many years have passed. You mention meetings between some U.L.T.
associates and members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Pasadena.
I suppose that their relative points of view were exchanged then.
I have no idea what they arrived at in the way of decisions.

I recently answered another inquiry, and will offer you some of
my views extracted from that here"

Yes I believe that each of the various offshoots of the ORIGINAL
THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in N Y (inaugurated: Nov. 17th, 1875) has
different explanations concerning events. [see BLAVATSKY:
Collected Works (TPH), Vol. I ]

Events are framed for posterity in documents. The causes and
conjectures of those who research history will for ever remain
opinions are and will always remain PERSONAL OPINIONS.

It is for the new reader to determine what seems appropriate, and
how much time can be spent on this, and, it is time well spent if
one intends answering questions on the subject from inquirers.

It however detracts from the time one can spend on studying
THEOSOPHY and learning what it teaches, and figuring our if it
makes good sense.

When all is said and done it is the logic and common-sense of
THEOSOPHY that leads the inquirer into a self-made certainty (or
a self-made delusion), depending on the basis taken and the
methods of study and comparative criticism employed.

I have done the comparative work for myself that you propose
doing, and it is a good exercise to do it so that you will learn
for yourself what these differing points are. Keep good notes of
your findings for future reference and back-checking.

As far as I am concerned, I prefer letting others do their own
research. I state my opinions, as far as possible only on
matters with which I have direct experience, and I try to define
that so that no element of "authority" enters into it.
Consequently I try to avoid perpetuating rumors or opinions about
people I have not met or whose writings do not seem to indicate
support of someone's qualification. It is better to show where
primary material can be found than "set up shop" and try to
interpret it to inquirers, in my esteem.

You mention Mrs. Tingley, and her being characterized as a
"spiritualist," or a "medium." I never met her and only look at
what she wrote and decide from that what I can understand of her
nature. And this is a rule I try to apply to all. As t Mr.
Judge being "led" or "misled" by her, I have no idea of how to
value that. I looked at the copies and excerpts from the
readings and diary notes and do not seem to get much knowledge of
additional inspiration from them. I suggest that you consider
and compare the work that the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY Section in
America did between 1886 and 1896 with that which it did under
Mrs. Tingley for the period, 1897 to 1907. did her "leadership"
add luster and assistance to what Judge had done? What has been
the fate of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in A since then?

You then mention the possible relations between Mme. Blavatsky,
Mr. Judge and the Mahatmas. But, from what you write you do not
seem to be acquainted with what they have themselves written on
the subject, or of their relations, and what the situation is
concerning past, present and future relations, with, and between
Great SOULS ( Great Spiritual Entities ), whether incarnate or
disincarnate. I believe that would be a pre-requisite. Why
should death of the physical body be the end of their work and
influence?

Again I have to rely on reports and have no direct experience of
those relations. But I can say that I have read and studied
THEOSOPHY extensively. And I believe that I can figure out some
relationships. But, again, I may not be prepared to share my
speculations. I strongly believe in independent study and the
marvelous quality of uninfluenced individual decision making
power. That is important to every researcher.

I can say that the information you desire to find is probably
available out of the mass of the original Teachings of Theosophy,
and each one will have to seize what he can. Each will have to
do their own work. Make their own decisions, and derive what
they can from the great and ancient philosophy. There are no
sure "short-cuts." Yet, when in doubt, there are always those
who are ready to try to assist on specific requests.

Suppose I were to advance a certain opinion; until such time as
you verify it yourself, you are using my word as a basis. In
other words you are relying on secondary evidence and my
opinion -- which may or may not be accurate.

I may say to you that H.P.Blavatsky Mr. Judge, the Mahatmas
etc., are not "dead" in the sense the average person takes "dead"
to mean. If you rely on my say-so, then you still don't know if
I am aware of a FACT (and have satisfactory personal evidence of
it) or am merely expressing a hopeful speculation. What evidence
and logic have your derived from a study of the KEY TO THEOSOPHY
(HPB) ? The logic and details are there, and can be applied to
the in formation contained in ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET
DOCTRINE . As I said, there are no "short-cuts."

If you wish to inquire into the "mental health" of Mr. Judge
towards the end of his life then read his last articles in THE
PATH / THEOSOPHY of 1895/96. Read also the articles from his
friends concerning their valuation of him and his work, printed
IN MEMORIAM after his death, and placed in THEOSOPHY magazine for
April / September 1896.

I believe you will see the difficulty. In making decisions, that
for us would be final and satisfactory, but, for others would
appear ridiculous and the vague vaporings of credulous fools, no
useful progress can be made.

If you can procure a copy of LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME
published by THEOSOPHY COMPANY, Los Angeles in 1946, you will
find towards he end of that special centenary issue a number of
important statements concerning Mr. Judge, and the nature of his
"borrowed body" incarnation. These are not found in the
publishing of that book by other publishers.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=======================





-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:19 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Mme. Tingley & H.S. Olcott & Theos-World Untrue ULT
statement


----- Original Message -----
From: Frank
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:02 AM
Subject: Theos-World Untrue ULT statement in their book "The
Theosophical Movement"


> Many serious students feel that some passages in the book THE
THEOSOPHICAL
> MOVEMENT 1975-1950 (not published by Theosophy Company, L. A.,
but
by
> CUNNINGHAM PRESS) are erroneous.
>
> In an old email Dallas wrote me
>
>
> As Dallas offers his help I draw attention to only three
excerpts
from the
> TM book that are erroneous, misleading and defaming against
Katherine
> Tingley. Here are the three choice passages:
>
> "The 'notes' referred to are nothing more than transcripts of
'psychic'
> messages, obtained through Mrs. Tingley as medium, and alleged
to be
to
> Judge from the discarnate H.P.B. The tone of these 'notes' is
explanation
> enough of the reluctance of their present possessors to make
them
easily
> accessible. Although dressed up in feeble imitation of
H.P.B.'s
colloquial
> style, they are strongly reminiscent of the drivel of the
seance...."
> - p. 285 TM 1951 edition
>
> "Dr. H.N. Stokes, editor of the Critic, then expressed his own
opinion that
> the 'notes' were in Judge's handwriting....Mr. Ryan,
apparently,
welcomed
> Stokes' judgment that the psychially received notes were in
Judge's
> handwriting, but the price he paid for this vindication was the
reduction of
> Judge to a dabbler in Spiritualism, a mere psychic dupe.
Judge...needed a
> medium, a 'helper,' [Mrs. Tingley] to get in touch with H.P.B.!
What can
> succession to such a 'leader' be worth?"
> - p. 286 TM 1951 edition
>
> "The much-proclaimed and never-produced 'private papers of Mr.
Judge' bear a
> rather remarkable likeness to 'private notes' of Mrs.
Tingley."
> - p. 671 TM 1925 edition
>
> The anonymous ULT writer is suggesting that these "notes" were
forgeries by
> Mrs. Tingley. To my humble unterstanding this Anonymous and
you,
Dallas,
> seem to ignore same basic facts which gives another light to
the
story.
> I limit myself only to three pieces of evidence which are
ignored by
ULT
> officials since decades (although surely known to them), the
uninformed
> public and even the uninformed, uninitiated members of the ULT:
>
> (1) See Mr. Judge's letter (addressed to Dr. Archibald
Keightley and
other
> E.S.T. Councillors in England ) dated January 4, 1895. The
letter
was first
> published in The O. E. Library Critic (Washington, D.C.),
November
1932 by
> the editor Dr H. N. Stokes. Letter is preserved in the
Archives of
The
> Theosophical Society, Pasadena, California.
>
<SNIP>>>>>>>>>

President-Founder Henry S. Olcott had a few encounters with Mrs.
Tingley during his lifetime. His admittedly biased opinion is
probably
not known to the majority of subscribers here. For what it is
worth,
his comments from his 6 volume book, OLD DIARY LEAVES, gives some
of
his part of Theosophical History. Mrs. Tingley says she
"Reorganized"
the Theosophical Society in 1898. Evidently she didn't notify
Mrs.
Besant, and Mr. Olcott, the President of the original
organization.

Old Diary Leaves, Vol XI, originally published in The Theosophist
from
Jan. 1905 to Dec. 1906.

Olcott is in Paris in 1896, page 69 - 72
He Comments----


PARSI ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESEARCH
Page. 69


.
The so-called "Crusade of American Theosophists the World",
headed by
Mrs.Tingley, the self-styled "Leader of the Theosophical
Movement ",
were in Paris at the time. One of their sympathisers sent me a
copy of
their handbill with a written note asking me to attend the
meeting.
This I did not do as I did not care to have my name circulated
about
America as a friend, perhaps a follower, of the female successor
to
Mr. Judge; but I sent Xifre, and two other gentlemen, MM. Bailly
and
Mesnard, to attend the meeting and report the facts to me.
Mrs.
Tingley's handbill was worded as follows:

"CRUSADE OF AMERICAN THEOSOPHISTS AROUND THE WORLD.
____________

The Crusade, which started from New York in June last, having
reached Paris will meet the public in the

PETITE SALE, Hotel Continental,
Entree Rue Rouget-De-Lisle,

On Thursday Evening, 20th August 1896, at 8-30 o'clock.
When the members will give addresses on Brotherhood,
Toleration,
Rebirth, and kindred theosophical subjects.

The Crusade consists of:
Mr. E. T. Hargrove, President of the Theosophical Society in
America.
Mr. Claude Falls Wright, President of the New York
Theosophical
Society, and Secretary to the late Madame Blavatsky, and to
William Q.
judge.
Mr. H.T. Patterson, President of the Brooklyn Theosophical
Society.
Mrs. C. F. Wright, Lecturer to the New England States
Theosophical
Societies.
Mr. F.M. Pierce, Representative of the School the Revival of
the
Lost Mysteries of Antiquity; and Mrs. KATHARINE A. TINGLEY,
Leader of the Theosophical Movement.

_________________

THE ABOVE MEETING IS FREE
in French and in English. Musical Selections."

The Hotel Continental where this meeting was held is one of the
most
expensive in Paris, the charges for rooms are enormous; it is
chiefly
patronized by Americans and Englishmen. The Crusaders must have
paid a
pretty figure for their meeting-hall. My representatives reported
that
a few people in evening dress sauntered in from the dining room,
stayed awhile and then sauntered out again. At the time when the
attendance was largest there were about forty persons in the
room,
including the Crusaders: at the close there were seven in the
audience. Mrs. Tingley's organ, however, reported the meeting as
follows:

"The result of the work in Paris was the foundation of the
French
division of the
Theosophical Society in Europe on August 21st, at 8-30 p.m., in a
large parlor at the Hotel St. Petersburg. Public meetings at the
same
hotel, on the evenings of the 16th, 18th, and 19th, and a larger
gathering at the Hotel Continental on the evening of the 20th,
led up
to this farewell meeting on the 21st."
Comments are superfluous.






President-Founder Olcott is in Bombay.
Pages 84- 88

At this same time the Tingley Crusaders reached Bombay on
their
voyage around the world and opened their proposed Indian campaign
with
a public meeting at the Town Hall of Bombay. In the report of
this
event and in the handbill which was distributed at Bombay, we see
the
same display of boastfulness and recklessness of statement which
has
been noticed in the remarks upon their doings at Paris. The
handbill
states that they are travelling around the world on behalf of the
Theosophical Movement "Which was begun in America by Madame H.P.
Blavatsky, continued by William Q. Judge and is now under the
leadership of Mrs. Katharine A. Tingley." The purpose of the
visit to
India "is to organise a Theosophical Society in this country on
the
original lines laid down by the Founders of the Movement ". The
members of the party are as announced in the Paris handbill, with
the
amplification that Mrs. Tingley now styles herself
"Leader of the entire Theosophical Movement throughout the
world.."
Considering that we, leaders, had lived and worked, at Bombay
four
years, and that our names were familiar in Hindu households
throughout
the whole Continent, this vainglorious announcement naturally
provoked
the mirth of the country, and the scheme to organise Theosophical
Societies on an improved pattern, fell flat. The Crusaders had
their
journey for their pains and there remains not a trace of their
passage
through the country.


The Times of India, for 30th October, 1896 said:
"The above visitors to Bombay, who are stated to be travelling
round
the world, occupied the platform at a meeting held at the Town
Hall
last night, but although seating accommodation had been provided
for
some five hundred of the general public only about seventy-five
persons, principally Parsis, attended the meeting."

Mrs. Tingley, with an eye to the shortcomings of the Brahmins, as
it
would seem, said:
"Spiritual pride was one of the greatest barriers to
enlightenment
and the idea that some one form of religion was the oldest or the
most
profound in some cases blinded people to facts. The speaker did
not
believe that India was the source of the world's religions,
though she
said that some teacher or other might flatter the Indians with
that
view in order to gather them into a special fold. The occult
learning
that India once shared in common with other nations, did not
originate
here and does not exist to any extent in India proper today.
There was
no religion now existing that had remained pure and undefiled and
she
urged the Hindus to seek beneath the mere external form of their
religion for the deeper and grander truths underlying it. The
same
thing should be done by the Mohammedan and the Parsi. The first
step
to take was the practice of unselfishness. Work for the world
should
be done, for such work was of far greater
importance than the mere cultivation of the intellect."

Mr. E. J. Hargrove thought:
"the time had arrived for the West to take the lead in the
higher
evolution of humanity. Old souls were incarnating in America; old
forces were coming up. The Theosophical Society had been founded
in
New York and with the impetus generated there, the movement had
since
spread over the entire world. The time had arrived for a new
impetus
to be given the movement from the same source. The present leader
of
the Theosophical movement, Mrs. Tingley, seemed to him like one
of
these old souls, grown wise in past incarnations, who had
returned to
carry on the work begun by Madame H. P. Blavatsky and furthered
by Mr.
W. Q. Judge. Mrs. Tingley's occult powers were not only of a most
remarkable and unusual character, but her brilliant leadership
since Mr. Judge's death, had more than justified her appointment
to
this post of grave responsibility."

Mr.Claude Falls Wright allowed his fancy to spread its wings
after the
following fashion:
" When the American Theosophists went back to their own country
they
were to lay the foundation stone of a great School for the
revival of
the lost Mysteries of Antiquity. In this school would be
demonstrated
the workings of nature and the spiritual laws of life. The temple
mysteries of the
ancients would there be revived. This revival would only now
take
place because Western humanity had reached a point where interest
was
taken in the higher science. A great mystic, Mr. Wright said,
been
born into the world, capable of leading humanity to an
understanding
of these mysteries, and the work begun by Madame Blavatsky and
continued by William Q. Judge and other great souls was to find
its
blossoming in this great School under this great mystic: he
referred
to Mrs. Katharine A. Tingley. In time he hoped a branch would be
started in India, when things were less disturbed than now."
Something went wrong before the tour was finished, for Mr.
Wright
and his wife left Mrs. Tingley on the way home, Mrs. Cleather
(another
Crusader) shortly after, Mr. Hargrove likewise, and the promised
School of the Ancient Mysteries has never, so far as is known,
taken
root or turned out a single adept or Mahatma.





Pages 326- 331

326 OLD DIARY
LEAVES

A search made among Mr. Judge's Papers a fortnight after his
death
(21st March, 1896) revealed the fact that he had nominated as his
successor, Mrs. K. A. Tingley, an American Spiritualistic medium,
entirely unknown to myself and the members in general. He added a
condition, it seems, that the secret should be closely kept for
one
year, from all except those whom he had chosen to open and
examine his
papers. Dr. Franz Hartmann, a fellow-seceder with Judge, but who
at
the time of writing had given his "voluntary and prompt
resignation
from the Presidency of the T. S. in E. (Germany) after my (his)
discovery that 'the spirit of intolerance prevailed therein,'"
contributes to the Theosophical Forum ' the following caustic
paragraph about the alleged secret methods, employed in the
interests
of Mrs. Tingley:
"The letters before us, privately written by Mr. B...C ....
S...C... and others, in which orders are given as to how the
public
should be mystified and the members of the T. S. taken by
surprise,
and in which every doubt about the Mahatmaship of Mrs. Tingley
is put
down as a deadly sin against the Holy Ghost, are a masterwork of
Jesuitism; but it is none of our business to trouble ourselves
about
the means which any church organism may use for obtaining power
over
the minds of the faithful and over their money; I only wish to
state
that the church of Mrs. TingIcy never has been:and is not now
representing the real Theosophical Society which has been
established
by H. P. Blavatsky, nor did the real W. Q. Judge ever resemble
the
caricature which the adherents of Mrs. Tingley have made of him
and of
which they have created an object of adulation and idolatry."
Another group into which the secessionists had split in
revolt
against Mrs. Tingley's autocracy, called itself the "Temple" and
had
for its "veiled prophet" another psychic, figuring under the
pseudonym
of "Blue Star", published in a circular dated at Syracuse', N.
Y.,
February 1st, 1899, the following indictment:
"Before Wm. Q. Judge passed into the silence, he left with
the
selected Outer Head an injunction and a request. He told her
that at
a certain time after he was gone she would receive a certain
sign,
immediately upon the receipt of which, she was to send for the
person
bearing that sign, and place that one in the Inner Circle of
advisers.
This person, whom we will refer to by the impersonal name of Blue
Star, had strong occult connections with the Lodge of Masters,
and
would receive directions which would be transmitted to the O.H.
and
from her to the different groups. The sign was sent to the O. H.
over
a year ago, but she refused to accept it, or recognize the person
giving it. She disobeyed this injunction as well as the one
commanding
her to keep secret her connection with the Lodge for one year.
Overweening ambition and desire for public recognition is the
cornerstone of her failure to keep connection with the Lodge. She
organized the Crusade around the world which should not have been
attempted until ten years after the death of W. Q. J., when
conditions
in America, now under preparation, would have made it a great
success,
instead of the useless expenditure of time, money and force that
it
really was. She selected the site for the School of Mysteries
which is
not the place selected by the Lodge. Then she called the
Convention at
Chicago, where was cut the last strand of the thread which bound
her
to Masters. Since then she has been working solely on her own
responsibility."

A year earlier (February 26th, 1898) Dr. J. D. Buck, later of
the
"Temple", backed by twenty-four sympathizers, forming what was
called
the Amrita Group, had himself notified her thus of his revolt:

"I have resigned from that section of the E. S. T. over which
you
preside. This action due to you no less than myself. Being no
longer
in sympathy with your methods, and my confidence in your
direction
being broken, I could not receive instruction or bestow obedience
to
any order of yours. You have converted the E. S. into a
starchamber
where insinuations and slander against Brothers is indulged in
without protest, and where explanation or defence is not
permitted..
This I regard as not only unbrotherly but as Jesuitical and
cowardly.
I think such methods demoralising.
I deny that they emanate from the Great Lodge and I believe they
will
rebound on all who participate in them."

A third split, led by Mrs. Tingley's most trusted lieutenant, Mr.
E.
T. Hargrove, who was one of a globe-trotting party called
"Crusaders
", sent out (at an expense of $30,000) to advertise their party
in all
countries where we were known in the hope of destroying our
influence,
and who issued a circular on the 1st March, 1898, in which Mr.
Hargrove, with a pathos which would be touching if it were not so
funny, solemnly notifies his "Purple Mother ":

"You have ceased to be the Outer Head of the E.S.T in the
interior and true sense. You will before long cease to be the
Outer
Head of the in the exterior sense. The Outer Head to follow you
has
already been appointed by the Master." She must have thought this
cruel, indeed, as coming from one to whom she had written on
September
5th, 1896, signing herself " Purple",:
"You are more to me than all in this great world." We have
Congreve's
authority that hell has no fury like a woman scorned, which may
explain her saying in a letter of April llth, 1898, to Mr.
Neresheimer, that Messrs. Griscomb, Hatgrove and Spencer were a
lot of
"occult desperadoes".

The chronological sequence of the secession movement would
then be
as follows:

May 8th, 1891.--H.P.B. died, after appointing Mrs. Besant her
successor: subsequently, influenced by representations made by
him,
the latter united Mr. Judge with herself in a joint leadership.

July l0th, 1894.--Judicial Committee, on Mr. Judge, sat in
London.

November, 1894.--Mr. Judge issues a circular "deposing" Mrs.
Besant and assuming sole control.

April 28th, 1895.--Boston Convention: American Section
secedes.

June 27th, 1895.--Secession recognized, and Charter of
American
Section transferred to loyal minority.

A. P. Sinnett appointed Vice-President to fill vacancy caused
by
Mr. Judge's secession.

The pitiful part of this pitiful business is that each of
these
secession leaders pretends to be acting under the inspiration and
guidance of the Masters, while at the same time doing everything
to
degrade the name of and bring shame upon the Theosophical
movement.
The thoughtful reader cannot fail to see that these splits and
quarrels were an inevitable sequence to the original Boston
secession,
secretly engineered by Mr. Judge--the lust of power spreading its
contagion from person to person. At present, (August, 1906) Mrs.
Tingley has been the most successful and, as "She Who Must Be
Obeyed
", rules her millionaire and pauper followers as Autocrat at
Point
Loma.
P. 331, Old Diary Leaves,
by Henry S. Olcott, Volume VI.
===============================================

DK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
The above is from the Olcott 6 volume history of the Theosophical
Society, from his own standpoint. The book is available from the
Theosophical Society in America, www.theosophical.org , and is
in
print from them only, as far as I know. Mr. Alego wrote me that
it
should be available on-line, but I haven't seen it yet.

I am not familiar with most of the names of these Crusaders, or
their
subsequent movements.

I wonder if any of their movements have survived down to the
present
day? - other than Wheaton/Adyar, TUP, and ULT?

Dennis






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