Theos-Talk Archives (August 2001 Message tt00032)

Dear Frank:

Any one can put in anything. But that does not explain. I
really want to know the reason for "expulsion." There has to be
a "paper trail." That is what is important.

Thanks

Dal

=========================

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Reitemeyer [mailto:ringding@blinx.de]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 5:13 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: ULT -- Dallas' view and answers to
DC.

Frank:
3. Claim: Robert Crosbie left the HQ by free will.
Result: He was kicked out and ULT suppressed it for nearly 100
years.

Dallas:
DTB PLEASE GIVE US CHAPTER AND VERSE As TO THE REASON YOU HOLD
Mr. R. CROSBIE WAS "KICKED OUT." PROVE IT. Prove that the
U.L.T. "suppressed it."

Frank:
The TS Point Loma membership record book has an entry for Robert
Crosbie
joining the TS on June 5, 1888. Writing in red ink over the date
are the
words "Marked off 1904 -- Expelled."

If Crosbie had left the TS by free will, the book entry would
have been:
"Expired". The other prove that the ULT suppressed the real
circumstances
about the true relationship between Robert Crosbie, a lay, and
Katherine
Tingley, the messenger of the Masters of Wisdom, is simply that I
know of no
official or quasi official declaration, note, letter, circular or
article to
the uninformed and misleaded members since nearly 100 years.
Isdn't that
strange for an organization which claims to follow HPB, who
always said that
the truth is the highest goal? Is organization, party line etc.
more
important then the truth?

Frank:
4. Claim: Robert Crosbie never accepted Katherine Tingley as
rightful
successor to Judge and O.H.
Result: Actually he hailed her serveral times as rightful
successor and O.H.

Dallas:
DTB IN THEOSOPHY THERE ARE NO "SUCCESSORS."

Frank:
Mmmh, perhaps Crosbie knew it better then you. In his book "The
friendly
Philosopher, 1945, p. 409 under the heading "To all open minded
Theosophists" I find Robert Crosbie, the founder of the ULT,
writing about
HPB and Judge:

"When the Messengers departed from the scene..."

So what does that contradiction betweenn you and RC about the
occult status
of Judge mean? Does that mean, that you, Dallas, are not open
minded in the
sense of Crosbie or does that mean that you do not read or
understand the
ULT books or does that mean that after the death of RC the ULT
changed their
policy and reduced the two messengers of the Masters which were
accepted by
RC to a single one?
It reminds me on the the story how the hebrew term elohim
(plural) is
reduced by the fanatical Christian theologist to a monotheistical
God.
Is HPB a mono messenger in the ULT?

What about the ULT DECLARATION of 1945 were it is stated: "It
[the ULT] is
loyal to the great Founders..."? Does that mean they accept the
great
Founders and at the same time reject their messengers? How is
such twisted
thinking possible?? Serious and important questions to me.

PS: I am busy right now and coming back to all other open
questions/commentaries to me asap.

Furthermore, the DECLARATION has the following: "It holds that
the
unassailable basis for union among Theosophists, wherever and
however
situated, is "similarity of aim, purpose and teaching," and
therefore has
neither Constitution, By-Laws nor Officers, the sole bond between
its
Associates being that basis. And it aims to disseminate this idea
among
Theosophists in the furtherance of Unity."

Question: How is it possible to have a union among Theosophists
when it even
not allowed to speak about problems or different views? How is it
possible
of being attacked when one speaks out what everyone thinks? Does
not the
declaration's formulation of "furtherance of Unity" imply that
there are
difficulties?
How is it possible to overcome the present agony and the status
quo (under
the mask of "peace"), when it is not wished to speak about the
problems we
have even TODAY?






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