Theos-Talk Archives (November 2001 Message tt00376)

You must all be from out of both unmanifest and manifest space and time 
(although Jerry seems to see it a bit clearer than the rest.:-) 

Time is only a measure of change, and change can only occur after unmanifest 
space, or "pure consciousness," which exists in infinite duration, emanates 
manifest space-time and manifest consciousness. Atma, then, is unconscious 
only with respect to "space-time" -- in which only "self consciousness" and 
"awareness" of material forms can exist, along with "free will." 

Thus. "manifest consciousness" is not the same aspect of the divine source as 
the "pure consciousness" (unconsciousness, if you will) of "unmanifest space" 
(although it is still ONE with it) -- of which Atma is its first immaterial 
reflection surrounding the seven fold material planes of manifest existence. 
Therefore, while Atma is unconscious (and timeless) with respect to the 
(material) fields (principles or planes) of manifest space, it is "pure 
consciousness" itself -- that always remains outside of manifest space-time 
-- as its "creative" guide or spiritual cause ("creator" if you like). 

For a contemporary scientist's take on this with respect to modern relativity 
and quantum physics, I suggest reading physicist Amit Goswami's *The Self 
Aware Universe*. Another book which come close to confirming the scientific 
basis of theosophy is Ruppert Sheldrake's, *A New Science of Life*. Also see 
The Theory of ABC (by yours truly) at: 
http://tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ along with the diagrams 
at: 
http://members.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html 

Perhaps Dallas can also give us some HPB and WQJ references that confirm the 
above statements.

LHM

In a message dated 11/19/01 9:58:24 AM, stevestubbs@yahoo.com writes:

>Hi, Katinka:
>
>Space and time are products of consciousness, as Kant
>demonstrated. If atma is unconscious, then it is
>outside space and time, without any division in the
>eseential unity of things.
>
>Steve
>
>--- Katinka Hesselink <katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> Hi Jerry,
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for that. I think it is the clearest
>> explanation of how you see things that I've read so far.
>> Seems to me you propose a fundamental dichotimy here.
>> Something inside space and time (the physical world,
>> among other things), and something outside it: atma. How
>> do you combine that with the essential unity of everything?
>> 
>> Katinka
>> 
>> Jerry wrote:
>> > Initial Assumptions: 
>> > 
>> > 1. There is an ineffable divinity that exists outside of
>> > space and time, and this is eternal and infinite and
>> > perfect. 
>> > 
>> > 2. This divinity has an inherent ability to
>> > self-express. In this sense it is inherently creative.
>>