Theos-Talk Archives (February 2002 Message tt00258)

Hi Brigitte and all of you,

Brigitte, that was a weird email. What do you want with that ?
Is it an answer to something ? And then what ?

from
Sufilight... with sufis and their x-filebags...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bri_mue" <bri_mue@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 8:09 PM
Subject: Theos-World Sufilights and "lightyears."


> Sufilight: "Idries Shah is according to me enhancing Bailey's 
> teachings by several lightyears,when talking year 2002. Well that is 
> just the way I see it."
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/5250
> 
> Sufilight:1. I think that Idries Shah, maybe could have chosen to get 
> exposed,weird all right, but please rethink it. He himself makes 
> statements in his books to the fact, that Sufis themselves from time 
> to time really exposes themselves - so thereby to TEACH - the people 
> in what he call "The Land of Fools".
> Sometimes people get confident if they feel that they have expoesed =
> someone.From confidence - wisdom will grow - and you have my word on 
> that ! That is a fact.
> 
> 2. Idries Shah also several times makes remarks on the Sufis
> extensive use of Ciffercoding in their writings. Maybe Idries Shah 
> used this on several occassions in his books and therfore they get 
> misjudged by ignorant readers in "The Land of the Fools" (or the 
> scientist scholars). His books should maybe be translate to arabic. 
> (Was it Dallas or Bruce on this list who had learned arabic ??)
> 
> 3. Maybe Idries Shah even used the 7 keys - of Blavatsky's on a high 
> level.
> My view is also: Idries Shah is using allegories a whole lot - and 
> there are spiritual and theosophical levels in his writings, in using 
> the seven keys, which one wouldn't dream of for some years to come.
> 
> 4. Maybe Idries Shah even also is acting as a "spiritual decoy" (Se 
> his books for that one - I think it was in the one called "The Dermis 
> Probe") to you Paul K. Johnson or others, so that you and others will 
> find the truth about Wisdom in a manner, which will help and benefit 
> the Planet and the world as a whole.
> 
> 5. My view on Moore is : Moore's review of Idries Shah is not 
> following the book so to speak on analyzing, as far as I can read 
> the mentioned article I have seen - "Telos", Volume 6, Number 4, 
> Autumn "Neo-Sufism: The Case of Idries Shah" by James Moore. (I can 
> get the whole article to anyone interested - if they email me in 
> private).
> I clearly find James Moore biased in his manner of presenting his 
> view on Idries Shah. And his analyzing is not 100 % clear as I have 
> mentioned in the above.
> 
> 6. Between his early books like ORIENTAL MAGIC, it seems like 
> something happened to Idries Shah. In the early books, he writes 
> about Sufism mainly as a "reporter," or as an outsider looking in; 
> and with THE SUFIS and everything thereafter, the perspective has 
> changed to that of an insider looking out.
> It makes you wonder what happened. He must have been visited by Khidr 
> (i.e. the invisible/visible Avatar). . . .
> Something else of interest is that THE SUFIS appeared when Shah was 40
> so all of hisother Sufi books came later in life. 
> 
> 7. I got this and other info from a place debating Idries Shah on the 
> Internet (try Yahoo's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caravansarai/). 
> These are the the words on Idries Shah's grave-stone:
> IDRIES SHAH
> BORN 16th June 1924 DIED 23RD November 1996
> 
> Do not look at my outward shape But take what is in my hand
> 
> And Paul: I expose you for looking at the outward shape of people. =
> Feel happy -the spiritual "candid camera" is on.
> 
> 8. And Paul we shouldn't forget, that the "Elephant" has more than 
> one Theosophical scientist looking at it. I.e. the "Elephant" (Idries 
> Shah) looks different to different people.
> 
> Questions:
> So I think I have exposed you Paul. What do you think about that ?
> The question also is - did Idries Shah throw of some BARAKA 
> (spiritual energies) ?
> (I defintely think so, and that I find very important.)
> 
> To expose someone is and should not be an emotional act - so let us 
> take it easy Paul.
> Let us laugh at this. I do hope you agree.
> 
> Maybe Theos-Talk is a (spiritual) decoy ?
> 
> Feel totally free to do your best.
> 
> http://list.vnet.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?visit=theos-l&id=171764080
> 
> --- In theos-talk@y..., "Morten Sufilight" <teosophy@m...> wrote:
> > Hi Brigitte and all of you,
> > 
> > Brigtitte wrote the below:
> > 
> > "plus Bailey 
> > > that according to at least some listmembers,is "light years ahead 
> of 
> > > HPB", and Indries Shah that is
> > > acording to Sufilight at least is again light years ahead of all 
> the 
> > > others and so on, all in fact are using similar sources that 
> contain 
> > > the same eternal TRUTH and the same natural LAWS of Dallas of 
> > > course."
> > 
> > 1. 
> > I didn't say that Brigitte ! A ask you: Please won't you keep the -
> truth - close to your heart.
> > It is your use of the word "again" in the above, which is very fake 
> and wrong.
> > 
> > I hold HPB - and the wisdom one can get from her writings - 
> physical, astral, and mental and higher ! - very near to my heart. 
> > 
> > 2. 
> > And "all the others" - in the above who are they, and when did I 
> mention them - together with Idries Shah ??
> > Please - please Brigitte be more precise in the future. 
> > 
> > 3.
> > You are lying and attacking me at the same time, can you not se 
> that ?? Please answer my question.
> > Sometimes one just feel, that you are pouring hate out. 
> > 
> > 4. I give the word to Martin Luther King Jr. - to if possible calm 
> you Brigitte :
> > 
> > "I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I 
> think this is at the very center of Jesus' thinking, is this: that 
> hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the 
> universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit 
> me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. It just never 
> ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that's the 
> strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the 
> chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, 
> that it doesn't cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate 
> and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion enough and 
> morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very structure 
> of the universe that strong and powerful element of love." 
> > 
> > Excerpted from "Loving Your Enemies", a sermon delivered on 17 
> November 1957 at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Ala. 
> (full text) 
> > 
> > Try this: http://home1.stofanet.dk/global-
> teosophy/martin_luther_king_jr2.htm
> > 
> > "People who live with fragmented love, increasing hatredness and 
> jealousy, will never be happy. Right from morning when you get up to 
> the time you sleep in the evening, you should spend your time with 
> love. " (from Sufilights website)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please Brigitte be sweet and kind. Please.
> > The good God - loves you. The bad God doesn't.
> > I care for you Brigitte. Do you care for me ?
> > 
> > from
> > Sufilight with LOVE...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "bri_mue" <bri_mue@y...>
> > To: <theos-talk@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:05 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Daniel's "Chohan's" and "Nirmankaya's."
> > 
> > 
> > > There should also be no illusion about India where I 
> travelled 
> > > twice including being involved with an archeological project  
> but 
> > > also with various spiritual encounters. Its spiritual society  
> > > has encouraged in many cases the use of drugs while poverty, 
> disease, 
> > > social discrimination and superstition reached one of its highest 
> and 
> > > most organized forms in history. Reactions of this list have 
> been 
> > > that "it takes one to know one", even I have never taken any
> > > drugs in my life, and have repeatedly expressed that spiritual 
> > > experiences don't need such, using this nevertheless maybe an 
> > > attempt to try silence me from telling the truth, wich 
> obviously is 
> > > not going to work.
> > > 
> > > Lopsang Rampa or the founder of Eckankar, that according to  
> Daniel 
> > > Caldwell's "4 step process of discovery" just aswell now can be 
> > > called "Chohan's" and "Nirmankaya's" in their own right, (plus 
> Bailey 
> > > that according to at least some listmembers,is "light years ahead 
> of 
> > > HPB", and Indries Shah that is
> > > acording to Sufilight at least is again light years ahead of all 
> the 
> > > others and so on, all in fact are using similar sources that 
> contain 
> > > the same eternal TRUTH and the same natural LAWS of Dallas of 
> > > course.
> > > 
> > > The Theosophical Glossary, published in 1892, contains an 
> > > alphabetical arrangement of words and terms pertaining to 
> occultism 
> > > and theosophy, as Coleman confirmed by others wrote: "The 
> > > fabrications of Madame Blavatsky scattered through it, was copied 
> > > from other books. The explanations and definitions of 425 names 
> and 
> > > terms were copied from Dowson's Hindu Classical Dictionary. From 
> > > Wilson's Vishnu Purana were taken those of 242 terms; from
> > > Eitel's Handbook of Chinese Buddhism, 179; and from Mackenzie's 
> > > Masonic Cyclopaedia, 164.
> > > 
> > > A modicum of credit was given to these four books in the preface. 
> > > But, inasmuch as, scattered through the Glossary, credit was 
> given at 
> > > intervals to these books for a certain few of the passages 
> extracted 
> > > therefrom, its readers might easily be misled, by the remark in 
> the 
> > > preface relative to these four books, into the belief that said 
> > > remark was intended to cover the various passages in the Glossary 
> > > where these books are named as the sources whence they were 
> derived 
> > > and these alone, that the passages duly credited to said books 
> > > comprised the whole of the matter in the volume taken from them, 
> > > instead of being but a small part of the immense collection of 
> matter 
> > > transferred en masse to the Glossary. But the four named in the 
> > > preface are not the only books thus utilised. A glossary of 
> Sanskrit 
> > > and occultic terms was appended to a work called Five Years of 
> > > Theosophy, published by Mohini M. Chatterji in 1885.
> > > 
> > > At least 229 of these terms and their definitions were copied in 
> > > Blavatsky's Glossary, nearly verbatim in every instance; and no 
> > > credit whatever was given for this wholesale appropriation of 
> > > another's work. I cannot find a single reference to Chatterji's 
> > > glossary in any part of the later Glossary. Nearly all of the 
> matter 
> > > concerning Egyptian mythology, etc., in the latter, was copied 
> from 
> > > Bonwick's Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought. A small part of 
> this 
> > > was credited, but over 100 passages from Bonwick were not 
> credited. 
> > > Nearly every word in relation to Norse and Teutonic mythology was 
> > > copied from Wagner's Asgard and the Gods, a little being 
> credited, 
> > > and some 100 passages not.
> > > 
> > > Most of the Thibetan matter was taken from Schlagintweit's 
> > > Buddhism in Thibet, some credited, but nearly 50 passages were 
> not. 
> > > Much of the material anent Southern Buddhism was copied from 
> Spence 
> > > Hardy's Eastern Monachism, nearly 50 passages being uncredited. 
> > > 
> > > Most of the Babylonian and Chaldean material was extracted from 
> > > Smith's Chaldean Account of Genesis, with nearly 50 passages not 
> > > credited. The Parsi and Zoroastrian matter was from Darmesteter's 
> > > translation of the Zend-Avesta, and West's translation of the 
> > > Bundahish in the Sacred Books of the East, mostly uncredited. 
> Among 
> > > other books levied upon in the compilation of the Glossary, 
> > > principally with no credit given, are these: Sayce's Hibbert
> > > Lectures Myer's Qabbala, Hartmann's Paracelsus, Crawford's
> > > translation of the Kalevala, King's Gnostics, Faber's Cabiri, 
> Beal's 
> > > Catena of Buddhist Scriptures, Rhys Davids's Buddhism, Edkins's 
> > > Chinese Buddhism, Maspero's Guide au Musee de Boulaq, Subba Row's 
> > > Notes on the Bhagavad Gita, Kenealy's Book of God, Eliphas Levi's 
> > > Works, and various others.
> > > 
> > > The Rampa books, and inventions like Daniel Caldwell's 
> > > Blavatsky/Chohan of a "secret "Tibet furnish proof that
> > > there is and has been a public appetite for "occultist" 
> fantasies. 
> > > No doubt the image of Tibet in the West has as much, or more, to 
> do 
> > > with deep seated fears and fantasies in the European and 
> American  
> > > psyche, as with the realities of Tibetan history and culture. As 
> > > Ursula Bernis has put it:
> > > 
> > > "Tibet evoked a longing for purity of spirit and perfection.
> > > Images of Tibet answered our need for otherness to speak to us in 
> > > terms of spiritual authenticity. Tibet became ours in a very 
> profound 
> > > way. We internalized the vast, forbidding, inaccessible, 
> mysterious 
> > > spaces of Tibet described by early travelers. They became the 
> hidden 
> > > domain of a collective spiritual depth-dimension filled with our 
> > > soul's innermost yearnings. Always withdrawing from ordinary 
> gaze, 
> > > Tibet's uniqueness today serves the basic human craving for 
> meaning 
> > > on levels other than the material"( "Tibet in the Shadow of Our
> > > Imagination", Parabola 22:3, August 1997,p. 84.)
> > > 
> > > "Tibet" has variously been constructed as a dark realm of 
> > > superstition, sorcery and decadent Buddhism, and as a never-never 
> > > land realm peopled by childlike peasants of simple piety and by 
> monks 
> > > of fabulous psychic powers. Sometimes the two streams of European 
> > > fantasy commingle in the same site, producing those peculiar 
> > > ambivalences which mark much of the Western literature, 
> especially in 
> > > the 19th century. Doubtless, too, a sentimental romanticism has 
> > > obscured the material particularities of Tibetan history. The 
> > > processes of mythologizing can indeed often be accommodated in 
> recent 
> > > models of Orientalism, such as that intimated by Gustavo 
> Benavides 
> > > when he writes, "Orientalism could... serve as a conduit through 
> > > which Western elites could replenish their ideological arsenal by 
> > > employing representations that because of their spatial, 
> temporal, 
> > > and even ontological otherness could function as utopian 
> horizons" 
> > > (120). Furthermore, we may in some measure agree with Lopez when 
> he 
> > > argues that the Western romance of "Tibet" may actually be 
> harmful to 
> > > the current Tibetan cause: (Gustavo Benavides, "Giuseppe Tucci, 
> or 
> > > Buddhology" in "Curators of the Buddha",p. 181)
> > > 
> > > Fantasies of Tibet have in the past three decades inspired much 
> > > support for the cause of Tibetan independence. But those 
> fantasies 
> > > are ultimately a threat to the realization of that goal. It is 
> not 
> > > simply that learning that Tibet was not the place we dreamed it 
> to be 
> > > might result in some "disillusionment". It is rather that to 
> allow 
> > > Tibet to circulate as a constituent in a system of fantastic 
> > > oppositions... is to deny Tibet its history, to exclude Tibet 
> from 
> > > the real world of which it has always been a part, and to deny 
> > > Tibetans their role as agents participating in the creation of a 
> > > contested reality, and the same is my argument for a sincere 
> > > biographical look at the real Helena P. Blavatskaya, instead of 
> the 
> > > imaginatid "HPB" wich some Theosophists simple use to
> > > pave their personal, equally imagined road to salvation with.
> > > 
> > > Donald Lopez whom I mentioned before does us a useful service in 
> > > dismantling and qualifying some of the more persistent popular 
> > > stereotypes about Tibet as a "timeless" culture, as an Edenic 
> > > paradise, as a static polity etc but in so doing he somethimes 
> also 
> > > seems to surrender to a danger of which he is intermittently 
> aware, 
> > > that of reducing Tibet to a vacuum filled by nothing more than 
> > > the "ideological fictions" of the West. (Lopez, "New Age 
> > > Orientalism"p. 43. See also Lopez's comments on what he 
> calls "the 
> > > demonisation of China" which he sees as "yet a further 
> manifestation 
> > > of the continuing orientalist romance of Tibet" in "Curators of
> > > the Buddha",p. 292-293.).
> > > 
> > > Many of these developments are also discussed in the most recent 
> > > edition of the well known and recommended book "How the Swans
> > > Came to the Lake".
> > 
> >  
>   
> > > Bri.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>