Theos-Talk Archives (December 2002 Message tt00083)

Wry, ( or is it "Honey Bee" :-)

So, when are you going to tell us how to "verify physical reality"? 

Although, even if you can -- what does that have to do with theosophical 
metaphysics -- which logically, scientifically, philosophically (and 
experientially) proves (as far as I am concerned, after over 50 years of 
serious study and comparison with other theories of reality) that the 
"physical reality" is only a small part of an overall, holistic metaphysical 
reality that goes back to and is the result of fundamental causes based on 
lawful involution and evolution of BOTH "non physical" consciousness (or 
spirit) and "physical" (substantial) matter (or mass/energy)? Besides, your 
statement is a misleading red herring (which seems to be designed to capture 
the minds of unthinking potential disciples who might suppose you are saying 
something profound) ... Since, "verifying physical reality" is as simple as 
dropping a brick on your toe -- and "feeling" the pain. :-) 

Having studied all your comments on this and other forums (pertaining to mind 
and consciousness) I have yet to hear one single idea or theory that pins 
down the cause, origin, and the operation of consciousness (or 
awareness/will) and its connections with mind and body. Skirting around and 
around the subject with vague implications of profound knowledge yet to come, 
accomplishes nothing, as far as I can see. So, when are you going to stop 
criticizing all the legitimate student/teachers of theosophy (and the 
serious, if not misled scientists studying consciousness :-) and begin to 
give us at least a taste of the profound wisdom you imply that you have -- 
but keep on endlessly beating around the bush about? 

Just some direct theosophical or scientifically consistent observations 
backed up by verifiable data would certainly help (even if only verifiable by 
means of our individual subjective awareness). It should be obvious that how 
to be a true "theosophist" who understands the necessity of practicing 
universal brotherhood cannot be "taught" to anyone. Only the metaphysical 
truths that confirm that "necessity" can. The rest is solely up to the 
individual student (with a little help from his/her friends. :-).

The metaphysical and occult teachings of theosophy -- as presented by HPB and 
made practical by WQJ (that anyone, properly prepared through their own "self 
determined and self devised study and effort," can intuit its profound 
meaning by reading, studying, and meditating on the "images" in and around 
the words and between the lines of their writings) -- either are or are not 
true. By what means (other than hubristic and empty talk about your 
omniscience) are you going to show us how we can judge that for ourselves? I 
await with bated breath hearing something solid that we can get our teeth 
into and wrap our minds around. :-) 

And, since when have you become our "guru," and what profound knowledge gives 
you the "authority" to "fix" or tell us what we can and can't talk about on 
this forum? (That, specifically, is devoted to "theosophy" as it was 
presented to the world by HPB, and later twisted and distorted to fit their 
personal religious beliefs by all those self proclaimed pundits from Besant 
and leadbeater, to Bailey, and all others who came after her.) If you, now, 
profess to be the new HPB, then why don't you show us your new "revelation" 
of the "Secret Doctrine"? And, tell us directly, what "approach" do you have 
to its study, and toward what "better results" you foresee? What is it you 
know that has to be "recorded by something impartial"? Who or what is that 
something? Or, are these statements simply more empty pronouncements without 
any substance -- designed to make us believe you have the final answer to how 
we can develop a "real soul and not a pretend one" (whatever that means)? 
Or, is this another "profound," bombastic statement that means nothing? 

So, is it too much to ask that you get off this "spin doctoring" of your 
personal credibility, wisdom, or authority, and get down to brass tacks, by 
telling us what you think we need to know -- that we don't already know -- or 
can easily find out for ourselves if we "really" knuckle down, individually, 
and study theosophy as it was presented in ALL of HPB's writings (and defined 
and clarified by ALL the writings of WQJ, who was directly instructed by 
her)? After that, maybe we can discuss how we might apply such wisdom as a 
coordinated group, to be better able to spread the "seeds," "trunks," 
"branches, "leaves, and "flowers" of practical theosophy that can grow out of 
the "nucleus of universal brotherhood" that we each might become. Thus, as 
individual enlightened "souls" we might eventually join with all others of 
"like mind" to become the true "soul" of all humanity -- without need of 
separate and arrogant personal "Gods," "saviors," "gurus," or "leaders."

Thank you,

LHM

In a message dated 12/30/02 11:56:08 PM, wry1111@earthlink.net writes:

>There is no quick-fix, but some approaches are more orderly than others
>and will lead to better results. If something with no opinion is "outside"
>of whatever is happening, impartially recording it, in present time, than
>there is hope and the possibility of developing a real soul and not a pretend
>one. There is too much thought of masters and leaders on this list and 
>not enough talk about how to verify physical reality. Wry