Theos-Talk Archives (April 2003 Message tt00119)

Thursday, April 24, 2003


Parable? or Literally ? Swords for non-violent people ?


Thanks Reed:


Understood. Separately I have sent in a general series of quotes
covering this and other matters concerning Jesus -- some are very
interesting.

Translated words are tricky. In this case Jesus wrote nothing
and all we have are 2nd party reports -- and even those conflict
when compared (as in the Gospels).

As to MAHATMA LETTERS and "one side of the discussion" -- I
personally would rather read what the Masters have to offer,
assuming it is BUDDHIC WISDOM that is there. What Sinnett, Hume
and others may have asked is just the "spring board" -- at best
it is a mind-stretch for Kama-Manas to come up with valid and
honest questions under the limitations of religious and secular
education. We all suffer to some extent from similar limitations
and the memories of those, that are our constant companions --
those that say: You can't do that !

One might say in considering MAHATMA LETTERS that we ought to be
grateful, and from that and other questions published in
THEOSOPHIST and LUCIFER -- The SECRET DOCTRINE resulted from
that discussion.

Try as one might there is no other publication that has the scope
and reasonableness of The SECRET DOCTRINE -- and Theosophy.

Basically, since we are MIND-BEINGS, and also IMMORTAL MONADS in
essence, we are also completely responsible for our decisions and
motives -- for words, feelings and deeds. We and all else are a
band, composed of various levels of intelligence -- of IMMORTAL
PILGRIMS -- Brothers all.

Is there anything better? Or are we so infected with doubt, that
we fail to perceive the rationale of true unified LAW,
intelligently, thoughtfully, universally and specifically at work
to assist all to advance individually?

This is a unified Universe, even if we do not yet fully perceive
that which our physical senses consider to be invisible and
impenetrable.

Our Minds if directed with serious and forceful intent can
penetrate and grasp anything. That is why Judge says so little
about the WILL. It uses IMAGINATION for good or evil purposes.
We have to make ourselves free of any selfishness if we are to
use it harmlessly and for beneficent purposes. Otherwise wisdom
will not be granted to us. Consider with me how many times you
have read passages in The SECRET DOCTRINE -- do you not find that
sometimes in re-reading you suddenly secure an insight you did
not have before? Why? How? Perhaps in the interval we have grow,
have matured, have reached out to broader perspectives -- are
even universalizing ourselves ?

I think we need, as a race, to focus on the law of harmony --
not on retribution, but on balancing the results of our proposed
actions in an environment of immortals -- where everything is so
beautifully balanced that no one escapes the effects of their
chosen actions. And this specifically includes feelings and
thoughts -- to us invisible. Yet, they are REAL. Unfortunately
we all think we can escape our evil acts, thoughts, feelings,
etc... if no one sees them, or seeing those, they dare say
nothing

One can truly trust those who are disinterested and unselfish.
They will never "take advantage" of another. For this we have H.
P. Blavatsky, Judge and the Mahatmas. To me they are ever
present, (as Nirmanakayas) and continually review those actions
we initiate that support and enlarge the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT

Best wishes,

Dallas

==========================

-----Original Message-----

From: Reed
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:57 AM
To: study@blavatsky.net
Subject: RE: Jesus required swords [ Now, did he?]

Dallas,

I think you make all excellent points in your letter below.

Maybe I should jump ahead here and tell you one of my
conclusions, to wit:
we cannot take any one saying of Jesus as "gospel". We must
analyze each
one. But then just as we should not take the
sell-cloak-for-sword rule on
its face as a teaching of the mystery school, and in turn of
Jesus, just so
we also may not take the "turn-other-cheek" rule just as it
stands. We
must weigh it and think it out.

Numerous biblical scholars say we do not have ANY of the exact
words of
Jesus. (I am surprised they are permitted to say such things.)
We also
know from HPB that the story of Jesus has been distorted "almost
beyond
recognition".

There are Theosophists who emphasize that we must be cautious in
reading
the MAHATMA LETTERS because we have only one side of the
discussion. We do
not know what Sinnett had said. In other words we don't know the
full context.

In the case of the sayings of Jesus, first we do not know the
exact words
for sure, and beyond that we do not know the context. Given
this, we have
to be very, very careful about using his alleged words as the
basis for our
moral judgments. This is really a key point that I wanted to
make.

Rather than reasoning that we should act a certain way because
Jesus said
to, instead we should make our actions be based on other
principles. Then,
as an interesting study, we can note how the comments of Jesus do
or do not
- or in what ways - correspond to what we otherwise decide is
right.

I think this issue of the swords illustrates the necessity of
reasoning as
in my above paragraph.

Reed

======================

At 12:23 PM 4/22/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Tuesday, April 22, 2003
>
>Dear Reed:
>
>The only thing I wish to make clear is that I did not intend to
>be critical of you.
>
>I am always wary of translations. I cannot guarantee the
>accuracy or the context of the saying attributed to Jesus.
>
>However we do know that he was an adept of the Great Lodge, who,
>according to the Masters took on the burden of an almost futile
>attempt to reform the Jews. Since then the "Gentiles" took over
>his reform, and as H. P. Blavatsky says combined the work and
>sayings of several Adepts and attributed those to Him. (ISIS
>UNVEILED gives instances).
>
>It is also said that he studied under Buddhis Monks who had a
>vihara on the banks of the Dead Sea, then went to Egypt where
the
>ancient teachings were the subject of his study.
>
>If we turn to the VOICE OF THE SILENCE we may find similar
>concepts:
>
>Look at p. 16 in the VOICE OF THE SILENCE where you will read
>that we are to "kill" desire, love of life, -- p. 17
"strangle
>thy sins" -- p. 41 where at the bottom we are asked to "slay"
>desire and even the knowledge of desire. -- see also p. 13: we
>are asked to "kill" our unclean thoughts. The "self of Matter"
>has to "disappear."
>
>In other words it is the Lower Self that has to be treated as an
>enemy and subdued. One may find this harsh as it is our friend
>and we live in it when awake. However if it were allowed to run
>wild, would it not end harming itself? So control is indicated.
>What does this ? BUDDHI-MANAS -- the Wise Mind. I think there
>is a reconciliation in this. (see p. 41 on "restraint")
>P 44 refers to "self immolation" and to sacrificing the Mutable
>(Kama-manas) to the Permanent (BUDDHI-MANAS). Pp. 67-8 also
>refers to this using the mango fruit as an illustration.
>
>There are mental swords and physical ones. All action stats
with
>desire and then the mind using its discrimination makes plan to
>either discard the desire or to implement it. How does one know
>the best to do? Are there not indications of vast, impartial
and
>universal laws that lead to the progress and harmony of the
>whole? Would we not benefit ourselves, as well as humanity if
we
>use those while restraining the discordances and disruptions of
>unregulated desire ?

>See if this is satisfactory

>Dal
>
>=========================