Theos-Talk Archives (July 2003 Message tt00045)

Hi Morton. You have a choice to respond to my material or not.
It can be important to point out confused thinking when it affects the
quality of the surrounding conditions. See below.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World To Morton


> Hi Wry and all of you,
>
> My views are only views - and that is a fact:

Wry: My views are also only views but I attempt to connect them to physical
reality in a certain way, so that others I am communicating can receive a
certain taste of something and a certain exchange of materials can occur,
after which people will be less trapped into material configurations, due to
being released from certain traps of making dishonest and illogical
correlations.. There is nothing allegorical about communicating this idea to
you.
>
> My view is, that as long as you are personally oriented towards me and as
> long as your focus is'nt on the teaching, and what you can learn by it, -
> then you are not quite ready to learn anything.

Wry: This is your view. My view is that all material is grist for the mill,
and it is essential to understand this. I hope your feelings are not hurt by
what I said about your two articles, due to your own level of detatchment
and also the fact that you asked for criticism, and I have honestly told
what I perceive to be true. If I ever get the time, I will go though these
two articles, point by point. It is not about "you" personally, in any way,
and I am sorry you perceive it as such, but about a way of handling material
that I see to be not only too broad to be worthwhile, but also inaccurate to
make common sense.

> There are other teachings - like the Bhagavad Gita for instance. Subba T.
> Row has made an excellent commentary on it. It is online to read. Maybe
you
> like this much better ?

Wry: There are perhaps other teachings for you that you might get more out
of.

>
> You can email me privately if you want to make any critisism about me
> personally. In that manner we do'nt interfer with the readers at
Theos-Talk
> and their interests.
> (If you do'nt email me privately - you may ask your self why ?)

Wry: I always ask myself "WHY" before I write the message. In this case, it
is very important to be able to recognize la-la in all of its various
disguises, and it is an act of altruism to point this out and risk taking
the heat on oneself when it occurs in a group setting. If I am in a one on
one conversation with an adult, there is no point in bothering, as if a
person reaches adulthood without thinking clearly. I do not have the time or
energy to help him it out and it is not even my place to do so. In a group
setting where people are discussing ideas, it is a different matter.

> Others may of course do the same.
>
> I politely ask:
> What is your background and motivations by being here ?

Wry: You have not answered the question in my last message about learning.
Please do so.

>
>
> Allegorical teachings are not for everyone to benefit from at anytime.
> Some persons are too emotional or they do'nt teach when they aught to
> or...etc...

Wry: This is just more silliness and also dishonest. Nothing in my recent
material was intended to be allegorical. You are implying that I use this
method of communicating at all times. (These little dishonesties are
starting to add up) No comment on some people being too emotional to
receive allegorical teachings except to say that emotional types take to
allegory like a fish to water, and intellectual types can receive from it
also, perhaps even more so, if they are trained to do so. And all in the
same location at the same time. Re your comment about not teaching when they
ought to: this, in relationship to giving allegory, or actually in
relationship to anything, sounds like gibberish to me.

>
> The story about the "Two Swords" was about this.

Wry: Did you write this story. Yes or no. If not, what is the specific
source? I cannot believe you wrote this story, as it seems you have not
grasped its inner meaning. Sincerely, Wry
>
>
>
> Feel free to do something GOOD...

Wry: This is a stupid thing to put in your emails. It is literally NOT
SMART, and it also makes me concerned about you that you would say this, in
that everyone already feels free to do all kinds of mischief at the same
time they fantasize they are doing "good." (If you are saying it to simply
irritate people and make them think you are a do-do, you have made a "good"
choice). If I have done anything to cause you emotional pain, this has not
been my intention, but on a forum like this there are times when it is
ne4cessary to be honest. Sincerely, Wry
>
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 7:34 PM
> Subject: Theos-World To Morton
>
>
> > Hi Morton. I have read your recent email to me. I will comment the best
> can, You are trying to present certain material, which you perceive to be
> important, to some theosophists. You are saying that first they need to
know
> how to learn. when to learn, and what to learn, and apparently you are not
> lumping yourself in with this bunch.The way I see it, learning is an
> individual matter. It starts with an inner question, or at least with an
> open curiosity, even if it is only a five year old with a receptivity to
the
> alphabet. The mind is fresh and there are no preconceptions. To present
new
> material to people whose minds are made up is very difficult. Why would a
> person want to do this when there are so many places on the internet where
> minds are not made up and people are more open and curious? My guess is
that
> you (or I or whoever) have a vested interest. If it involves a conscious
> aim, it is between each person and his "God," but if it is a matter of
> personality, this is something, admittedly very hard to see, which we need
> to look at. I have learned a lot from attempting to communicate on here.
> One thing I have learned about myself is that I am a person who tends to
> idealize people and situations. It is a form of optimism that is not
always
> reality based in that it is a movement away from grieving.
> >
> > Quite honestly, though you have some good ideas, I cannot relate to your
> material. It is too confusing. I do not think you yourself know , as you
> have put it, "how to learn, when to learn, and what to learn." Of course
> this is just one person's opinion. I do not believe you understand how to
> present new material in such a way that it can be appropriately
assimilated
> or even know enough to know which material to present and when, and all of
> this is assuming that you know something important that others on here do
> not. Personally I have seen no evidence of this. In any case, when you
tell
> people they do not know how to learn, I have no evidence that this helps
> them learn. For instance, when I tell you that what you said applies to
> yourself, what do you learn from this?
> >
> > Where there is learning, there is inspiration. Is there inspiration on
> theos-talk? Yes there is, as I personally, at times, am an inspired human
> being, and I believe that at times for fractions of a second, or seconds,
> there are others. (This makes me w want to investigate why I am only
> inspired on rare occasion and the prospect of following this question to
the
> end fills me with great joy). My sense is, though, that nothing we say or
do
> on this list is going to have that much effect on theosophists as a whole,
> but maybe it will effect a few who will go on and do interesting work. .
> >
> > Re a few questions and comments in your message: I was referring to the
> second article you gave a link to. Re Katinka, she was doing a form of
> cross-talking, which is not that great, though we all do it on occasion,
but
> since she was saying something favorable about Bart, it was no big deal
and
> not the way you painted it. Bart is a straight forward person with his
feet
> on the ground, who is not going to go floating up in the clouds or get
lost
> there and is also not going to make false accusations against people.
There
> is a tone of grandiosity to your messages, in my opinion, and he pointed
> this out to you. If you put NEW material into what you write, in such a
way
> that people's curiosity is stimulated and real learning begins to occur,
> people will be too interested to criticize you, in that they will not care
> if you sound like a mahatma or not.
> >
> > One last comment on your writings on the two links you posted. To my
mind,
> they are very mixed up and you should erase them. If I had time, I would
> criticize them point by point, but I do not. I am trying to write emails
on
> here that can in some way be beneficial to a whole bunch of people. To
> conclude, you have some good ideas, but you do not, in my opinion, know
how
> to present them. In general, your "knowledge" is immature and ridiculously
> incomplete. You are prone to floating away into intoxicating states, not
bad
> in itself, if your feet could stay connected to the ground, but they
cannot
> and do not and you end up floating away into the nether and taking others
> with you. Because of you, I may have to leave this list for a while, as
this
> is turning out to be a waste of time. Sincerely, Wry
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>