Theos-Talk Archives (December 2003 Message tt00399)

Dec 30 2003

Dear Friend:


Re Simplicity and Truth


I understand your idea that simplicity best explains to you the concepts
we name: "truth," "law" and "existence." Explanations are usually
complex. Truths are direct, but cause thought, demand verification ,and
generally end up being tested with applications. I would observe that
"answers" are not necessarily "defense." 

Arguments (as I see it) arise because a of at least a duality of view
points. Resolution is secured when the roots of both are discovered --
since that is where both unity and separateness emerge. If "unity" is a
matter of history, then present divergence can be resolved if we return
to beginnings. Also, philosophy and logic enter here (along with Number
Theory, as a component (or an analogy to) every "Truth"). 

Consider Pythagoras' 10 points making up a triangle.



*	1 = UNITY - SPACE - ALL
* *	2 = duality of SPIRIT & MATTER
* * *	3 = Spirit-Matter-Mind (a
MONAD)
* * * *	4 = Life- Desire- Ideal form-
Physicality
____

10 totality of all living things
IDEALS



Between 1 and 2 there is the gap of "non-manifestation" and
manifestation"

Between 3 and 4 there is the gap of "Spirit" and "Matter."

The MONAD in manifestation is triune. Wisdom - Form - Perception

MATTER is fourfold: Life-force; Desire; Electro-magnetic atomic force
fields;
4. Physical molecules, cells, etc...


All the rest is explanation of the complexity of purpose -- to educe
from "form" (Matter) the harmony present (and potential) of wisdom
(Spirit) as: "Thought, Will, and Feeling." 


Theosophically we use the concepts of (to be found in S D I pp. 14
-19)  

1.	"God" or Deity, as universality in Spirit in all, and for all."

2.	A single law that there should be "Freedom for all (unity in
diversity), and its expression be the brotherhood of harmony.

3.	That every component of the Universe is a "Pilgrim spirit." Its
"life-cycle" extends far beyond the mere physical existence of any one
period or cycle of physical being, This is because it has an immortal
component rooted in (1 above) the deathless DEITY.

The rest is an account from archaic HISTORY of the way ion which these
have been established and the processes of development that have ensued
-- on a universal as well as a planet-wide basis. 

Since we are dealing with what claims to be the actual records of the
"academy of the Wise" (see SECRET DOCTRINE ) over untold aeons, we will
find that account to be different from the theories and hypotheses that
our science has posited, and based on relicts and fossils of a purely
physical character, widely scattered. It is theory vs. records. But,
we have a problem,, and it produces argument:

1.	Is there any proof of an "immortal component" of Man ?

2.	Is there any proof that "feelings, passions, desires, yens,
etc..." are parts of a separate aspect -- form Mind, thought,
ratiocination, logic, intuition, etc....

3.	Is there any evidence that "Wisdom" exists or is attainable?

4.	Is there adequate evidence to show that religions all emanate
from a single source, and may represent the same teachings -- divided by
others by location, language, myth, lore, and circumstances of delivery
and of recording ?

5.	Do our sciences integrate? Is there adequate evidence that the
psychological and the physical sciences intermesh and are
interdependent?


I would say that if one desires to consider them a "gift," then it is
from one's own HIGHER SELF ( Atma) to the embodied brain-mind -- that
which we all use her in our common lives. 

[To explain what I mean, let me borrow a little from The KEY TO
THEOSOPHY (pp. 135-6, 175-6) where HPB speaks of the basis for
psychology:  

The Mind in THEOSOPHY has three parts:

1.	Pure Mind -- as in mathematics, geometry, calculus, etc...

2.	Spiritual Mind - concerned with ideals and the practice of
brotherhood.

3.	Selfish, material mind - thoughts concerned with one's physical
existence.

I agree, Truth needs no defence.  

Best wishes,

Dallas


==================================



-----Original Message-----
From: alden_parent [mailto:alden_parent@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 8:18 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@e...> wrote:
> Dec 30 20003
> 
> Re: What to do with a "truth?"
> 
********************************************************

Dallas & friends,

Again you are eloquent and the delivery is
sound. Thank you for that!
Especially the point on "intuition" as a
message or " Voice of Conscience". I agree that
intuition is needed, but that even intuition does
not always recognize when a subtle revelation is
delivered at its doorstep. I have had complicated
and complex questions answered in the simplest and
most subtle of ways, and had nothing to do with
intuition or voices of conscience. It seemed to
me to be a gift, because I never would have discovered
it on my own, only because the answer was so
beautifully simple and not complex, as would be
expected. 
These revelations were in the field of " Number
Theory" and are not related to Theosophy per se' .
Why can such, not be considered a gift?
 
The point I was trying to make when talking
about the defense of truth is as follows.
In " The Key to Theosophy " the question and
answers seem to be of a defensive mode. My thought
was if Truth is in Theosophy why be so defensive.

Truth need not defend itself; or am I percieving
the writings wrongly. If so! How so?


Happy New Year,


Alden

Alden





> Dear friend:
> 
> I would say: explained and shared invariably. But there is a 
question
> of timing here. The sharing invokes a proviso at least..
> 
> One proviso is that a dangerous truth should not be revealed to 
one who
> has not yet the ability to use it safely and wisely. The way in 
which
> Nature (our Universe) handles the problem is a good example.
> 
> We will have to grant it (as a vast unit of intelligence) the 
faculty of
> an entire range of consciousness and knowledge extending from 
ignorance
> to complete universal cognisance.  
> 
> Also you will have to grant to its components a progressive scale 
of
> incremental individual intelligence (wheels within wheels ?).  
These,
> impersonally, will take over local applications and supervision of 
the
> vast Plan. Perhaps, one might call it an academy of immortal wise 
men?
> But then immortality to every component of the Universe must also 
be
> granted, together with the innate potential of (eventually) itself
> entering this "academy." As I see it, this kind of "academy" 
runs pari
> passu with the whole of evolution. It may be called the Universal 
MIND,
> perhaps. If so, the concept of the "academicians" forming a 
> "Brotherhood of the Wise" is not a foreign or an impossible 
concept. 
> 
> And -- one is able to see in this the schema and plan of the
> Theosophical philosophy. But this comes through if one studies it 
in
> its entirety.
> 
> As to the imparting of truth. It is an unhappy situation for the 
one who
> knows, possesses and may be using the "truth," since it makes 
him / her
> responsible for any abuse made the one to whom he entrusts it.  
This is
> said to be a part of the karma of becoming a "teacher" in howsoever
> small a manner. It is a part of the tribute one pays for being a
> "human."  
> 
> Is not the "Family of Man" all inclusive? It reaches far beyond
> (theosophically) the living of this single life, and encompasses a 
whole
> string of previous lives during which the singular intelligence of 
any
> "man (mind)" develops and grows in perception. The concept of
> immortality begins, as concept, with the immortal "atom." If 
endowed
> with intelligence, it pursues an ever more self-guided life 
passing from
> form to form until it acquires the mental capacity of a "human."
> Thereafter "reincarnation" becomes the process of continued study 
and
> experience. We are all involved, if you agree so far, in this 
universal
> "School."
> 
> And this brings up the delicate subject of morality and ethics --  
and
> how does one determine the fitness of another. A very ticklish
> situation. Quite unpleasant in fact.
> 
> It would seem from a careful study of Theosophy that such care is
> already in place. Many approach Theosophy and are daunted by the 
mixture
> of elements presented as an integrated and working whole. It 
seems to
> have been concealed for long. But how? Why? By whom? Does it 
do any
> good? Does it help anyone? 
> 
> The inquirer is presented with information, things to read and 
think
> about on his own. Included is a study of the development of ideas, 
and
> of history, from antiquity up to the present. There is no 
compulsion, he
> is left free to make his own decisions.
> 
> Even a starting point is not made precise, as it is assumed his 
inquiry
> has led him to this field of study, and he has fitted himself to 
guide
> his own study. Information will always be provided when asked 
for.  
> 
> He is expected to mold his own tools: mind, thought, will, 
desire, in
> fact all that goes to make him a conjoined personality (living this
> present life), and, secondly, an IMMORTAL Spiritual SELF interior 
to
> him. This is One who helps and guides him when appealed to. In 
final
> matters it is always the inner SELF (not egotism or selfishness, 
but the
> impersonal and universal MAN) that is the surest guide for each of 
us.
> Some call it "intuition," and some call its messages: "The Voice of
> Conscience." 
> 
> What is your reaction to this?  
> 
> How familiar are you with theosophical literature? The modern
> representation of ancient Theosophy, as a "stream," started with 
ISIS
> UNVEILED, and this was followed by the queries and answers in 
articles
> printed in THEOSOPHIST. The SECRET DOCTRINE was published and for
> new-comers The KEY TO THEOSOPHY was published. The SECRET DOCTRINE
> brought out many inquiries focusing on the obvious fact of a secret
> ancient School of the Wise. For those who sensed the Inner SELF 
the
> booklet The VOICE OF THE SILENCE was issued --m indicating the 
lines of
> inner discipline that leads the "personal self" -- the mask we 
presently
> wear -- to the INNER, the IMMORTAL SELF. 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dallas
> 
> =============================
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: alden
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:44 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers
> 
> 
> > Dallas,
> 
> I found your dissertation to be both eloquent
> and sound. What about truth? Once it is possessed
> or claimed to be known, does it need to be defended?
> Or just shared!
> 
> Alden
> 
> ====================================
> 
> "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@e...: Dec 29th 2003
> 
> > 
> > Dear Friend:
> > 
> > I tried to understand what you wrote, but I believe I may 
express 
> some of the ideas a little different from you. Please consider:
> > 
> > 
> > Concerning WISDOM and TRUTH..
> > 
> > As Ideals they exist of themselves. They are the LAWS inherent 
> since all time in Nature (the Universe). Some call them "God's 
Laws." 
> > 
> > How they are described varies with thinkers, seers and writers.  
The
> > words will also vary with races, languages and cycles of time.
> > 
> > Vanity (as I understand it to be) is a disguised desire for 
> authority and showing off ones actual or pretended abilities. But 
all
> true 
> wisdom or truths are self existent, they have to be "common-
sense.".
> They 
> are the laws of Nature and prevalent uniformly in nature. No one 
owns 
> them and no one has a single master-key to them and to 
understanding 
> them. They are the general property of the World / Universe. All 
> thinking men and women have equal access to them. 
> 
> > 
> > Obedience to wisdom is first an understanding of it, and then a 
> willing adoption of its evident, common-sense processes. These are
> always
> > cooperative; and uniformly and impersonally, life-supporting. In 
> fact every being and everything and being is already subject to 
the 
> Laws of Nature. There are no exceptions. We all use them even if 
we
> cannot
> > explain them.
> > 
> > Brotherhood and peace as I understand them, are normal states of
> > co-existence and cooperation -- each being is in its place and 
helps
> > others as needed.
> > 
> > Disorder, strife, confusion and sorrow are the result of 
> selfishness and
> > ceasing to obey Nature's laws. In some cases this is the result 
of
> > ignorance, and in others it is deliberate WRONG-DOING. The 
motives 
> being
> > different, the resultant Karma will differ.
> > 
> > Our Universe, our World, and finally our own bodies are good 
> examples of
> > "Unity in diversity." Also of the ability of many different 
types 
> and
> > kinds of atoms, molecules, cells, and more complex structures --
> > extending to a vague comprehension of the exactitude needed to 
> guide a living COSMOS -- Some primal; force, power, urge in every 
one,
> .. 
> etc. to live together in full cooperation.  
> > 
> > But who guides? What is the final purpose of living and of our
> > endeavors? Why are we all here? And when a life ends, and the 
body 
> is dissipated - is there no future? Is reincarnation a reasonable
> > alternative to fruitless living? How do we explain individual
> > consciousness, and increments of intelligence? 
> > 
> > These are, of course, the way in which I would express my ideas 
on 
> these subjects.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Dallas
> > 
> > =======================================


 

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