Theos-Talk Archives (February 2004 Message tt00124)

Feb 23

Dear Friend:

You ask about:

PV
"He (The Adept)cannot control the immortal spirit of any human
being, living or dead, for all such spirits are alike sparks of the
Divine Essence, and not
subject to any foreign domination."	ISIS II 590 

So how do the dhyanis have the freedom to choose, but they still were
considered as rebellions and got punished by Karma ??? Is this something
that we can understand at the intellectual or even abstract level?? Or
should we leave it up to our Intuition to really assimilate the Divine
Plan ???

====================================


DTB DHYANIS (gnyanis) the "wise" -- are apparently of different
levels. The term is a collective as I understand it. 

So it might have seemed there were some who were "not so wise." Yet we
find later that HPB explains that the law of karma dictates for all
their natural duties, and the range of discretion in which they may
choose opportunities. They, and we, are all mind-endowed -- and
presumably we are all developing,, each at his own stage, the capacity
to choose wider and deeper matters of SPIRITUAL significance. 

But in this case HPB explains the old manuscripts (some of the Puranas)
had been corrupted by interested and sectarian copiers, so that the
DIVINE SACRIFICERS were pictured as ignorant and selfish. If they are
divine then they are past the stage of selfishness a long time ago. [
see quote from SECRET DOCTRINE below S D II 103]

In my esteem it is more useful to work on our own self-improvement
morally, than to worry about the designations HPB gives to the Great
Beings who are so far ahead of us.  

Suffice it to say, THEY are there, and each has a duty to guard and
preserve the LAW and LIVE and act with KARMA. 

None of them has the "freedom to choose" unless it is in strict
accordance with the LAW of KARMA.. If they (in our poor limited sight)
are presumed to act personally or by whim, they cease being "dhyanis."


========================================

PV
Intuition is the 7th sense that comes from the buddhic plane thru
practice and live in meditation (Dhyana). If theosophists never acquire
that blissness, or even denies its existence, should they be left to
blind faith, a condition that is not acceptable by true theosophists.

--------------------------------------------------------------


DTB	As far as I know INTUITION at this level of our own advance, has
always to be checked with COMMON SENSE.. If we are "sure" of something,
and cannot PROVE it by the criteria of impersonality and universality,
we will find we usually are deluded and our "sureness" is an illusion.
We need to practice humility.

========================================

PV
So where do we stand? what approach should we take ????

======================================


DTB Study of our own lower nature.  

Controlling it with universal and impersonal principles so that it can
by right moral and impersonal actions and thought benefit others.

Adopt the attitude that we know very little and whatever we can offer
ought to be subject to all others' review.

Be above all things humble.

======================================

Best wishes,

Dallas

-------------------------------------------------

S D II 102 - 104

THE SECRET DOCTRINE. Vol. II


16. HOW ARE THE (real) MANUSHYAS BORN? THE MANUS WITH MINDS, HOW ARE
THEY MADE? (a) THE FATHERS (Barhishad (?)) CALL TO THEIR HELP THEIR OWN
FIRE (the Kavyavahana, electric fire), WHICH IS THE FIRE WHICH BURNS IN
EARTH. THE SPIRIT OF THE EARTH CALLED TO HIS HELP THE SOLAR FIRE (Suchi,
the spirit in the Sun). THESE THREE (the Pitris and the two fires)
PRODUCED IN THEIR JOINT EFFORTS A GOOD RUPA. IT (the form) COULD STAND,
WALK, RUN, RECLINE AND FLY. YET IT WAS STILL BUT A CHHAYA, A SHADOW WITH
NO SENSE (b) . . . . . . 

(a) Here an explanation again becomes necessary in the light, and with
the help of the exoteric added to the esoteric scriptures. 

The "Manushyas" (men) and the Manus are here equivalent to the Chaldean
"Adam" — this term not meaning at all the first man, as with the Jews,
or one solitary individual, but mankind collectively, as with the
Chaldeans and Assyrians. 

It is the four orders or classes of Dhyan Chohans out of the seven, says
the Commentary, "who were the progenitors of the concealed man," i.e.,
the subtle inner man. 

The "Lha" of the Moon, the lunar spirits, were, as already stated, only
the ancestors of his form, i.e., of the model according to which Nature
began her external work upon him. 

Thus primitive man was, when he appeared, only a senseless Bhuta* or a
"Phantom." This "creation" was a failure, the reason of which will be
explained in the Commentary on Sloka 20. 

(b) This attempt was again a failure. It allegorizes the vanity of
physical nature's unaided attempts to construct even a perfect animal —
let alone man. 

For the "Fathers," the lower Angels, are all Nature-Spirits and the
higher Elementals also possess an intelligence of their own; but this is
not enough to construct a THINKING man. 

"Living Fire" was needed, that fire which gives the human mind its
self-perception and self-consciousness, or Manas; and the progeny of
Parvaka and Suchi are the animal electric and solar fires, which create
animals, and could thus furnish but a physical living constitution to
that first astral model of man. The first creators, then, were the
Pygmalions of primeval man: they failed to animate the statue —
intellectually. 

This Stanza we shall see is very suggestive. It explains the mystery of,
and fills the gap between, the informing principle in man — the 

-------------------------FO0OTNOTE-----------------------------------
 
* It is not clear why "Bhûtas" should be rendered by the Orientalists as
meaning "evil Spirits" in the Purânas. In the Vishnu Purâna, Book I, ch.
5, the Sloka simply says: "Bhûtas — fiends, frightful from being
monkey-coloured and carnivorous"; and the word in India now means
ghosts, ethereal or astral phantoms, while in esoteric teaching it means
elementary substances, something made of attenuated, noncompound
essence, and, specifically, the astral double of any man or animal. In
this case these primitive men are the doubles of the first ethereal
Dhyanis or Pitris. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

SECRET DOCTRINE II 103 

THE DIVINE REBELS.


HIGHER SELF or human Monad — and the animal Monad, both one and the
same, although the former is endowed with divine intelligence, the
latter with instinctual faculty alone. 

How is the difference to be explained, and the presence of that HIGHER
SELF in man accounted for? 

"The Sons of MAHAT are the quickeners of the human Plant. They are the
Waters falling upon the arid soil of latent life, and the Spark that
vivifies the human animal. They are the Lords of Spiritual Life
eternal." . . . . "In the beginning (in the Second Race) some (of the
Lords) only breathed of their essence into Manushya (men); and some took
in man their abode." 

This shows that not all men became incarnations of the "divine Rebels,"
but only a few among them. 

The remainder had their fifth principle simply quickened by the spark
thrown into it, which accounts for the great difference between the
intellectual capacities of men and races. 

Had not the "sons of Mahat," speaking allegorically, skipped the
intermediate worlds, in their impulse toward intellectual freedom, the
animal man would never have been able to reach upward from this earth,
and attain through self-exertion his ultimate goal. 

The cyclic pilgrimage would have to be performed through all the planes
of existence half unconsciously, if not entirely so, as in the case of
the animals. 

It is owing to this rebellion of intellectual life against the morbid
inactivity of pure spirit, that we are what we are — self-conscious,
thinking men, with the capabilities and attributes of Gods in us, for
good as much as for evil. 

HENCE THE REBELS ARE OUR SAVIOURS. 

Let the philosopher ponder well over this, and more than one mystery
will become clear to him. It is only by the attractive force of the
contrasts that the two opposites — Spirit and Matter — can be cemented
on Earth, and, smelted in the fire of self-conscious experience and
suffering, find themselves wedded in Eternity. This will reveal the
meaning of many hitherto incomprehensible allegories, foolishly called
"fables." (Vide infra, "The Secret of Satan.") 

It explains, to begin with, the statement made in Pymander: that the
"heavenly MAN," the "Son of the Father," who partook of the nature and
essence of the Seven Governors, or creators and Rulers of the material
world, "peeped through the Harmony and, breaking through the Seven
Circles of Fire, made manifest the downward-born nature."* It explains
every verse in that Hermetic narrative, as also the Greek allegory of
Prometheus. Most important of all, it explains the many allegorical
accounts about the "Wars in Heaven," including that of Revelation with
respect to the Christian dogma of the fallen angels. It explains the
"rebellion" of the oldest and highest Angels, and the meaning of their
being cast down from Heaven into the depths of Hell, (104) i.e.,
MATTER. It even solves the recent perplexity of the Assyriologists, who
express their wonder through the late George Smith. 
S D II 102 - 104


================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Pham, Van V [mailto:van.v.pham@boeing.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:25 PM
To: study@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-study] RE: Bodhisattva and Buddha

Dear Dallas et Al,

You quote :

" Those(The Host of Dhyanis) , on the other hand, who, jealous of
their intellectual
freedom (unfettered as it then was by the bonds of matter), said:--"We
can choose...we have wisdom,"...and incarnated far later--these had
their first Karmic punishment prepared for them. They got bodies
(physiologically) inferior to their astral models, because their chhayas
had belonged to progenitors of an inferior degree in the 7 classes. As
to those "Sons of Wisdom" who had "deferred" their incarnation till the
4th Race, which was already tainted (physiologically) with sin and
impurity, they produced a terrible cause, the Karmic result of which
weighs on them to this day...the bodies they had to inform had become
defiled through their own procrastination...This was the "Fall of the
angels," because of their rebellion against Karmic Law. The "fall of
man" was no fall, for he was irresponsible..."	SD II 228
Also :

"He (The Adept)cannot control the immortal spirit of any human
being, living or dead,
for all such spirits are alike sparks of the Divine Essence, and not
subject to any foreign domination."	ISIS II 590 

So how do the dhyanis have the freedom to choose, but they still
were considered as rebellions and got
punished by Karma ??? Is this something that we can understand at the
intellectual or even abstract level??
Or should we leave it up to our Intuition to really assimilate the
Divine Plan ???
Intuition is the 7th sense that comes from the buddhic plane thru
practice and live in meditation (Dhyana). If theosophists never acquire
that blissness, or even denies its existence,should they be left to
blind faith, a condition that is not acceptable by true theosophists.
So where do we stand? what approach should we take ????
---Original Message-----
From: Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:17 AM
To: study@blavatsky.net
Subject: [bn-study] RE: Bodhisattva and Buddha


Feb 16 2004

Dear Peter:

Thank you for these excellent references.

Separately I had been working on the concept presented in SECRET
DOCTRINE (sent below & separately)

Dallas
---------------------------------------

SOURCE OF THE SPIRIT IN MAN


"...The Host of Dhyanis, whose turn it was to incarnate as the Egos of
the immortal, but, on this plane, senseless monads--that some "obeyed"
(the law of evolution) immediately when the men of the 3rd Race became
physiologically and physically ready, i.e., when they had separated into
sexes. These were those early conscious Beings who, now adding
conscious knowledge and will to their inherent Divine purity, created by
Kriyasakti the semi-Divine man, who became the seed on earth for future
adepts. Those, on the other hand, who, jealous of their intellectual
freedom (unfettered as it then was by the bonds of matter), said:--"We
can choose...we have wisdom,"...and incarnated far later--these had
their first Karmic punishment prepared for them. They got bodies
(physiologically) inferior to their astral models, because their chhayas
had belonged to progenitors of an inferior degree in the 7 classes. As
to those "Sons of Wisdom" who had "deferred" their incarnation till the
4th Race, which was already tainted (physiologically) with sin and
impurity, they produced a terrible cause, the Karmic result of which
weighs on them to this day...the bodies they had to inform had become
defiled through their own procrastination...This was the "Fall of the
angels," because of their rebellion against Karmic Law. The "fall of
man" was no fall, for he was irresponsible..."	SD II 228

"The adepts can control the sensations and alter the conditions of the
physical and astral bodies of other persona not adepts; he can also
govern and employ, as he chooses, the spirits of the elements. He
cannot control the immortal spirit of any human being, living or dead,
for all such spirits are alike sparks of the Divine Essence, and not
subject to any foreign domination."	ISIS II 590


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