Theos-Talk Archives (March 2004 Message tt00525)

Hello again Morten Nymann Olesen,

I am happy to clarify any misunderstandings of what I have previously 
stated. On the other hand, I cannot afford the time I would have to 
expend if I were to be pulled into this controversy. I don't mind 
answering questions, sharing what I have learned, or giving opinions 
(when asked), but ultimately, you will have to do your own research and 
come to your own conclusions. ( Frankly, I'm amazed that there are so 
many of you subscribed to this list who have the time to write so much.) 
Please see my responses after yours--which will appear in blue (if this 
list supports html coding):

Morten Nymann Olesen wrote:

>Yes. And then what ? I don't understand that this should solve the issue and its importance to
>the cause. "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH".
>
Please understand that I do not agree, nor have I ever agreed with the 
Adyar TS or ES attitudes on these matters. 

>I think jerry and others should explain this strange issue somewhat further.
>
>As far as I know is it not so, that the leadership at Adyar has for years now (at least the last decade comes to
>my mind) acted in a manner towards the Bailey scheme, which is very regrtteable.
>
At one time I knew a lot of people who lived at the Krotona community 
(Ojai). Most all of them are dead now, and I'm pretty much "out of the 
loop" these days. Perhaps things have changed. Last time I took a walk 
on the Krotona grounds, most of the houses were vacant, and I felt like 
I was visiting a ghost town. 

>If Blavatsky was around, she would not have acted so silently towards the Bailey scheme as Adyar has down for years. Well, just call it a view from a friend of Truth.
>
I can't speak for her.

>>>2. So we have according to some of you, that Bailey copies CWL'sd and Besant's early ES papers - from the years 1910-18.
>>>
Not me. I wrote "draws from." I use this term in a general manner. 

>>>and she publishes the book "Initiation - human and Solar", which are
>>>supposed to be based - heavily - on these earliere ES papers.
>>>CWL makes publishes in 1925 the book "The Masters and the path"
>>>which has many similartites with the above Bailey book.
>>>This last sentence we agree entirely upon.
>>>
>>>The question and thought i have now is:
>>>
>>>a)- Was bailey wrong in doing so? 
>>>
I'll leave that to those who have a vested interest in the teachings of 
Bailey and/or Besant/Leadbeater. I'm just an historian in these matters. 

>>>- Did the mentioned early ES papers really come from - inspiration by - the Master D.K. and no one knew about it ?
>>>
You mean, no one except Alice Bailey? Besant and Leadbeater credited 
them to a different source.

>>>b) Jerry's quote given to us by Daniel in this thread was :
>>>"From my earlier perusal of AAB's writings, I found
>>>that many of her teachings were DRAWN DIRECTLY from
>>>Besant and Leadbeater's E.S. writings...."
>>>
>>>The word "many" is as far as i view it not covered with just one book -
>>>
I read several of her books over a period of about 35 years, and some 
years ago, organized a study group where we read and compared them to 
other Theosophical writings. In anticipation to a possible follow up 
question: No I don't have time nor am I motivated at this time to go 
back and re-read them or to commit myself to reading all 24 volumes of 
them. 

>>>out of a total of about 24 books - being taken out as a Copy-Cat. So are there other books we should be concerned with ? And if so, which ones ?
>>>
>>>Daniel Caldwell ?
>>>Jerry Hejka-Ekins ?
>>>
I don't think of Bailey as a "copy cat." See above.

>>>c) Would any of you show the readers at his place - Theos-Talk
>>>any of these early ES papers you - Daniel or Jerry refers to
>>>as having been copied by Bailey into her book "Initiation - Human and Solar"
>>>
I'm not aware that she "copied" any papers.

>>>Perhaps someone could scan them into a pc and post them on a website or mail them to me in private ? I find this issue to be very important while we deasl with the Bailey issue, and the upcoming events on this planet.
>>>
Gregory Tillett announced some years ago that he has a book in progress 
on the history of the E.S. I'm sure that he plans to reproduce some 
interesting snippets. Otherwise, all of the teaching in the ES papers 
have been published in one form or another in the Besant/Leadbeater 
books. I again recommend C. Jinarajadasa's book: Occult Investigations, 
which, I'm certain, you will find to be very helpful in connecting the 
events, situations and sources of the published material. 

>>>As far as I am concerned it is not so that --- "Many" --- of Bailey's books were "DRAWN DIRECTLY"from E.S. papers written by Leadbeater or Besant between the years 1910-18. If I am wrong - then proove me wrong !
>>>
As I wrote in the beginning, you will need to your own research and come 
to your own conclusions. I will be happy to assist in any way that I 
can, but my experience has been that it is futile to attempt to "prove" 
anything to anyone who is already vested in a contrary point of view. 

>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>"...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
>>>their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
>>>hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
>>>H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2
>>>
A wonderful and apt quote in light of this discussion.

--jhe







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