Theos-Talk Archives (March 2004 Message tt00542)

Hallo Jerry and all,

My views are:

Thanks for your answers and your valuable time taken
to share your views on this issue.

1. Let me say this. If you, (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) cannot afford the time to
read emails, - then please
immediately stop reading this email. And stay away from timewasting emails.
I hate to encourage people to do something, which their conscience tell them
is wrong.

Fast fingers are good. (smile...)

2. The blue color in your email was absent, - also at Yahoo's version of
your email.

3. I know, that you cannot speak on HPB's behalf.
But you can think or contemplate !

4. It is allright, that you are an historian.
But being morally ignorant is no good - although sometimes - pleasant.
Please recoinsider your own position.

5. Jerry wrote in the below:
..."but my experience has been that it is futile to attempt to "prove"
> anything to anyone who is already vested in a contrary point of view. "

My question is:
Who said I had a vested interest in all this ?
- I am independant of any theosophical organization. -
I just said, what my views and knowledge was when comparing Bailey's books
with the
CWL and Besant papers I knew about.

If all the ES papers from back then in 1910-18 are online or have been
published in various books written by Besant or CWL, then
I see a lot of diffeence in the views expressed between Bailey's books and
the so-called ES papers !
I have not read all letters made by Besant and CWL, and because of
that I am interested in any new views, which could throw a light upon
this issue - Bailey's teachings as been "DRAWN DRIECTLY" from
ES papers made by CWL or Besant.

6. Yes. I will continue to look forward to Tillett's book and any views he
might have on this important issue.

7. I have just reread the online version of - C. Jinarajadasa's book: Occult
Investigations
It didn't throw of anything substantial.


Thanks again.

from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Hejka-Ekins" <jjhe@charter.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:51 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Morten, please ask Jerry Hejka-Ekins


> Hello again Morten Nymann Olesen,
>
> I am happy to clarify any misunderstandings of what I have previously
> stated. On the other hand, I cannot afford the time I would have to
> expend if I were to be pulled into this controversy. I don't mind
> answering questions, sharing what I have learned, or giving opinions
> (when asked), but ultimately, you will have to do your own research and
> come to your own conclusions. ( Frankly, I'm amazed that there are so
> many of you subscribed to this list who have the time to write so much.)
> Please see my responses after yours--which will appear in blue (if this
> list supports html coding):
>
> Morten Nymann Olesen wrote:
>
> >Yes. And then what ? I don't understand that this should solve the issue
and its importance to
> >the cause. "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH".
> >
> Please understand that I do not agree, nor have I ever agreed with the
> Adyar TS or ES attitudes on these matters.
>
> >I think jerry and others should explain this strange issue somewhat
further.
> >
> >As far as I know is it not so, that the leadership at Adyar has for years
now (at least the last decade comes to
> >my mind) acted in a manner towards the Bailey scheme, which is very
regrtteable.
> >
> At one time I knew a lot of people who lived at the Krotona community
> (Ojai). Most all of them are dead now, and I'm pretty much "out of the
> loop" these days. Perhaps things have changed. Last time I took a walk
> on the Krotona grounds, most of the houses were vacant, and I felt like
> I was visiting a ghost town.
>
> >If Blavatsky was around, she would not have acted so silently towards the
Bailey scheme as Adyar has down for years. Well, just call it a view from a
friend of Truth.
> >
> I can't speak for her.
>
> >>>2. So we have according to some of you, that Bailey copies CWL'sd and
Besant's early ES papers - from the years 1910-18.
> >>>
> Not me. I wrote "draws from." I use this term in a general manner.
>
> >>>and she publishes the book "Initiation - human and Solar", which are
> >>>supposed to be based - heavily - on these earliere ES papers.
> >>>CWL makes publishes in 1925 the book "The Masters and the path"
> >>>which has many similartites with the above Bailey book.
> >>>This last sentence we agree entirely upon.
> >>>
> >>>The question and thought i have now is:
> >>>
> >>>a)- Was bailey wrong in doing so?
> >>>
> I'll leave that to those who have a vested interest in the teachings of
> Bailey and/or Besant/Leadbeater. I'm just an historian in these matters.
>
> >>>- Did the mentioned early ES papers really come from - inspiration by -
the Master D.K. and no one knew about it ?
> >>>
> You mean, no one except Alice Bailey? Besant and Leadbeater credited
> them to a different source.
>
> >>>b) Jerry's quote given to us by Daniel in this thread was :
> >>>"From my earlier perusal of AAB's writings, I found
> >>>that many of her teachings were DRAWN DIRECTLY from
> >>>Besant and Leadbeater's E.S. writings...."
> >>>
> >>>The word "many" is as far as i view it not covered with just one book -
> >>>
> I read several of her books over a period of about 35 years, and some
> years ago, organized a study group where we read and compared them to
> other Theosophical writings. In anticipation to a possible follow up
> question: No I don't have time nor am I motivated at this time to go
> back and re-read them or to commit myself to reading all 24 volumes of
> them.
>
> >>>out of a total of about 24 books - being taken out as a Copy-Cat. So
are there other books we should be concerned with ? And if so, which ones ?
> >>>
> >>>Daniel Caldwell ?
> >>>Jerry Hejka-Ekins ?
> >>>
> I don't think of Bailey as a "copy cat." See above.
>
> >>>c) Would any of you show the readers at his place - Theos-Talk
> >>>any of these early ES papers you - Daniel or Jerry refers to
> >>>as having been copied by Bailey into her book "Initiation - Human and
Solar"
> >>>
> I'm not aware that she "copied" any papers.
>
> >>>Perhaps someone could scan them into a pc and post them on a website or
mail them to me in private ? I find this issue to be very important while we
deasl with the Bailey issue, and the upcoming events on this planet.
> >>>
> Gregory Tillett announced some years ago that he has a book in progress
> on the history of the E.S. I'm sure that he plans to reproduce some
> interesting snippets. Otherwise, all of the teaching in the ES papers
> have been published in one form or another in the Besant/Leadbeater
> books. I again recommend C. Jinarajadasa's book: Occult Investigations,
> which, I'm certain, you will find to be very helpful in connecting the
> events, situations and sources of the published material.
>
> >>>As far as I am concerned it is not so that --- "Many" --- of Bailey's
books were "DRAWN DIRECTLY"from E.S. papers written by Leadbeater or Besant
between the years 1910-18. If I am wrong - then proove me wrong !
> >>>
> As I wrote in the beginning, you will need to your own research and come
> to your own conclusions. I will be happy to assist in any way that I
> can, but my experience has been that it is futile to attempt to "prove"
> anything to anyone who is already vested in a contrary point of view.
>
> >>>----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>"...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
> >>>their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
> >>>hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
> >>>H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2
> >>>
> A wonderful and apt quote in light of this discussion.
>
> --jhe
>
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