Theos-Talk Archives (May 2004 Message tt00226)

In a message dated 05/27/04 9:21:58 PM, prmoliveira@yahoo.com writes:

>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote:
>
>> The "essential oneness of all existence," like the equivalence of matter 
>> and energy, might be eventually proven as a scientific fact based on 
>>fundamental laws of nature inherent in space itself. 
>
>That which is "unthinkable and unspeakable" (to mention the quote of 
>the Mandukya Upanishad in the first fundamental proposition in the 
>Proem of the SD) cannot be "proven as a scientific fact" as long as 
>Aristotelian categories and logic dominate science's view of itself 
>and of its method of understanding and exploring reality.

Taken in context -- we were NOT talking about the "unthinkable and 
unspeakable" Absolute "Space" -- which is NO thing. We were discussing the "essential 
oneness of all 'existence'" -- that refers solely to the "reality" of the 
manifest "things," and by extension, the substantial or physical "space" of the 
Cosmos that emanates from the Absolute (as the "rootless root" of everything)... 
The "Absolute Reality" being entirely outside of that manifest multi-spatial 
unity, as well as beyond the direct correspondence between all things in it, 
both visible and invisible. In such a case, correct mathematical logic and 
scientific reason must prevail -- so as to have a correct understanding of the 
interrelationships between ALL "existent" THINGS -- that are, in essence, still 
in unity or ONE with the Absolute (that, although "separate," must also exist 
outside of all space and time). 

Therefore, the *unity of all manifest things*, being substantial and 
changeable according to fundamental laws, must be able to be thought about and can 
become subject to measurement and comparison -- and can eventually be proven 
scientifically as well as mathematically... Just as Einstein's theory of 
relativity "proved" the equivalence of matter and energy -- and related it to the 
fundamental physical laws of the space-time continuum that ultimately resolves to 
the "singularity" representing the total Force in this entire Universe -- which 
is only a small part of the Absolute that remains forever separate and 
undiminished. (Ref: Krishna)

>Perhaps only a mind which is completely free from category-induced 
>thinking can glimpse that Reality. Such a mind probably would have 
>no desire to prove anything for 'proofs' exist only at the level of 
>discourse and categorisation.

When we separate the infinite, unchanging Absolute from the finite, ever 
changing Cosmos -- there are two "realities" to consider. The former cannot be 
categorized, but the latter can. And, that's what we were discussing... The 
ability for science to eventually prove the unity of all the categories of 
"things" *within* the Cosmos itself.

As I said before, it's important to keep our categories separate in mind in 
any discourse... Even the categorical difference between self evident "proof" 
through direct subjective experience (and consequent conviction of the truth of 
the unity of the "non manifest" Absolute reality) -- vs. mathematical or 
experimental proof through indirect objective observation and measurement (that 
convinces the NON "free from category-induced thinking" mind, of the truths of 
the unity of the "manifest reality" of this Cosmic manifold). The two proven 
categories, taken together, then "proves" the unity of ALL existence. (Including 
the "infinite sea" of individual Universes that, according to theosophy, also 
emanate from the Absolute.) 

Incidentally, anyone who doesn't need those two categories of proof, whether 
subjective or objective, can be only a blind believer or disbeliever based on 
"testimony" or "authority " -- who can never be a true occultist or completely 
"enlightened" with respect to the nature of ALL Reality (both Absolute and 
Relative).

Leon 

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>Pedro 
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