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Re: Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB on Body/Soul/Spirit & Life after Death

Oct 16, 2004 07:18 AM
by stevestubbs


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Perry Coles" <perrycoles@y...> 
wrote:
> The talking snake and garden of Eden are seen as literal and
> without this literal interpretation the whole Christian theology
> falls flat on its face. The only mainstream Christian group
> I've heard give ear to the possibility of a metaphorical
> reading of the bible is in the more liberal sector of the
> Anglican church

The Garden of Eden story is loaded with layer upon layer of esoteric 
meanings which are explained in ancient documents, but which, to my 
knowledge, are never explained in anything modern. Taking it 
literally is laughable. "Adam", for example, is not the name of a 
person but the Hebrew for "mankind." In the Kabbalah the serpent is 
the same as Messiah (according to gematria). The garden is located 
in the third heaven, etc. The story is ingeniously constructed, 
since a complete explanation of all the esoteric meanings would have 
provided an ancient initiate with a fairly complete course. Today, 
of course, we find ignorant fundamentalists trying to get scientific 
research excluded from the public schools and a misinterpretation of 
this allegory inserted in its place.

19596From: Daniel H. Caldwell <danielhcaldwell@y...> Date: Sat Oct 
16, 2004 0:53am
Subject: Re: Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB on Body/Soul/Spirit & 
Life after Death

> I'm curious: what do you think the theosophical idea or term
> might be for gehenna??

Perry is right. The closest thing would be kama loka.

Referrring to the Ophite diagram, which is discussed at length in 
ISIS UNVEILED, Origen says that:

"Celsus says that the diagram was 'divided by a thick black line, and 
this line he asserted was called Gehenna, which is Tartarus.' Now as 
we found that Gehenna was mentioned in the Gospel as a place of 
punishment, we searched to see whether it is mentioned anywhere in 
the ancient Scriptures, and especially because the Jews too use the 
word. And we ascertained that where the valley of the son of Ennom 
was named in Scripture in the Hebrew, instead of 'valley,' with 
fundamentally the same meaning, it was termed both the valley of 
Ennom and also Geenna. And continuing our researches, we find that 
what was termed 'Geenna,' or 'the valley of Ennom,' was included in 
the lot of the tribe of Benjamin, in which Jerusalem also was 
situated. And seeking to ascertain what might be the inference from 
the heavenly Jerusalem belonging to the lot of Benjamin and the 
valley of Ennom, we find a certain confirmation of what is said 
regarding the place of punishment, intended for the purification of 
such souls as are to be purified by torments, agreeably to the 
saying: 'The Lord cometh like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' 
soap: and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver and of 
gold.'" (Contra Celsum, vi, xxv)

Origen then goes on to say that the deeper significance of the matter 
was esoteric and not to be committed to writing. Also that the 
Ophites did not know it. The truth is, the Ophites were initiated 
into Mysteries that Origen was not (the Merkabah) and his criticisms 
of Ophitism, although extremely valuable to us in the present day, 
were based on ignorance and cannot be taken without some caution. 
His comments on gehenna, though, were well informed and valuable. 
Here is what he says:

"It is in the precincts of Jerusalem, then, that punishments will be 
inflicted upon those who undergo the process of purification, who 
have received into the substance of their soul the elements of 
wickedness, which in a certain place is figuratively termed 'lead,' 
and on that account iniquity is represented in Zechariah as sitting 
upon a 'talent of lead.' But the remarks which might be made on this 
topic are neither to be made to all, nor to be uttered on the present 
occasion; for it is not unattended with danger to commit to writing 
the explanation of such subjects, seeing the multitude need no 
further instruction than that which relates to the punishment of 
sinners; while to ascend beyond this is not expedient, for the sake 
of those who are with difficulty restrained, even by fear of eternal 
punishment, from plunging into any degree of wickedness, and into the 
flood of evils which result from sin. The doctrine of Geenna, then, 
is unknown both to the diagram and to Celsus: for had it been 
otherwise, the framers of the former would not have boasted of their 
pictures of animals and diagrams, as if the truth were represented by 
these; nor would Celsus, in his treatise against the Christians, have 
introduced among the charges directed against them statements which 
they never uttered instead of what was spoken by some who perhaps are 
no longer in existence, but have altogether disappeared, or been 
reduced to a very few individuals, and these easily counted. And as 
it does not beseem those who profess the doctrines of Plato to offer 
a defence of Epicurus and his impious opinions, so neither is it for 
us to defend the diagram, or to refute the accusations brought 
against it by Celsus. We may therefore allow his charges on these 
points to pass as superfluous and useless, for we would censure more 
severely than Celsus any who should be carried away by such 
opinions." (Contra Celsum, vi, xxvi)

This document is available on line.

> That is certainly part of the problem with the JW's
> interpretations as well as those of Christian
> theology. But once you take that into account, you
> can then look at the biblical verses and see them
> in a quite different light from the way either the
> JW's interpret them or the way "Christian theology"
> interpret them.

The stuff was intended to be esoteric in ancient times, but the 
initiated would have laughed out loud at modern Christianity, 
although they would not have corrected its misunderstandings.

19597From: Perry Coles <perrycoles@y...> Date: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:12am
Subject: Re: Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB on Body/Soul/Spirit & 
Life after Death

> So the teaching of a fiery hell is an invention to scare the
> "faithful" into submission by the church fathers, as well as
> being a symbol for the purification of gross elements.

They did use it to frighten people. But the idea that there is a 
subterranean lake of fire was a rational extrapolation from the 
observation that there are active volcanoes in the world. Sodom and 
Gomorrah were destroyed by a volcano. The dead were deposited in the 
ground and it was assumed the subterranean fire would eventially rise 
and swallow up the world, the dead along with it.

The Jews worshipped a volcano until it went extinct on them, but the 
idea of Tartarus seems to have been taken in from the Greeks, who 
according to Plato figured out about the subterranean fire from 
studying volcanoes.

19599From: clarity12.1@j... <clarity12.1@j...> Date: Sat Oct 16, 2004 
6:49am
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Jehovah Witnesses & Mahatma KH/HPB on 
Body/Soul/Sp irit & Life after Death

>The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary of the Charles Fillmore
> Reference Library is a interesting approach to metaphorical
> treatment of the Bible.

His technique is identical to that of Philo of Alexandria, meaning he 
used the same method that was used in ancient Egypt. The system he 
constructed on that basis, though, is quite different from the 
ancient esoteric system of the first century Christians and Jews, and 
is considerably less meaty. At first I was inclined to dismiss it as 
nice try but no cigar. On reflection, though, I have come to wonder, 
given that there were so many layers of meaning in those ancient 
texts, whether Fillmore may have uncovered some material that was 
taught orally in ancient times and left completely unwritten. There 
is regrettably no way to settle that question yea or nay.







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