Theos-Talk Archives (October 2004 Message tt00314)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell" 
<danielhcaldwell@y...> wrote:
> 
> Netemara,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. I quote them again
> below and then below them I append a remark or two.
> 
> First your comments:
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> I can only garner what I know about the TS master
> from her writings, TMR, this life and psychic 
> impressions and they amount to a few things 
> which I still have not completely categorized and one
> of those mysteries is that of Master Morya.
> 
> I came to see him as a reflection of HPB when 
> I kept hearing "Less is More" that phrase equivocated 
> HPB with MM for me. Then I also believe that she 
> would often attribute visions or clear dreams and
> write them as outer physical events, that might 
> also account for some of the inconsistencies. 
> Then there is the idea that she was well on 
> her way to being a Master and took the liberty 
> of hiding it through such a personage as M Morya 
> (my strongest view).
> 
> I also believe that she encountered at least ONE being who did
> appear to her and she did spend time with in Tibet or India and 
that
> was the "Real Master" thus I believe that there was perhaps one
> person other than HPB who would be classified as a Master. It is a
> circuitous route in thinking for sure and a tunnel I am not quite 
at
> the end of but that is what I have put together so far.
> 
> In sum, Morya could have been HPB's alter, higher ego and she hid
> herself through him. There was at least ONE master present but it
> was not MM nor perhaps anyone who has been thus far identified. 
That
> the real lesson is that they were human beings living at the time 
of
> HPB and that she knew them as such.
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> I am somewhat unclear as to what you are actually telling
> us.
> 
> But concerning your summary remark which reads:
> 
> "Morya could have been HPB's alter, higher ego and she hid
> herself through him."
> 

Daniel,
Thanks for the quotes: 

I realize that my comments are diametrically opposed to each other, 
or rather paradoxical. But while Morya may have been physical, let's 
say for a moment he was a true Indian person, I believe that not ALL 
the writings and advice he gave out was not all from him. If you 
want to call her writing using his voice plaigarism then so be it, 
but I do believe she wrote in his name, that is what I really mean 
when I say that this was her alter ego. I believe that she had the 
spiritual status to do so that's why I don't call it plaigarism. DK 
also says that she wrote some of the letters. This may be the person 
she met in Hyde Park, I believe she met someone.

Netemara


> I would ask you and other readers to consider what you have
> said in light of the testimony BELOW.
> 
> Are you saying that in these encounters, Olcott and others
> were actually talking to HPB's "alter, HIGHER EGO"?
> 
> That in other words, the Master was not a physical human being
> but only HPB's [non-physical??]"alter, higher ego"?
> 
> In the first case listed BELOW, Olcott says that "This same 
Brother 
> once visited me in the flesh at Bombay, coming in full day light, 
> and on horseback....My voice and his had been heard by those in 
the 
> other bungalow, but only H.P.B. and I, and the servant saw him." 
> 
> =====================================================
> 
> CASE B: MORYA COMES ON HORSEBACK TO BOMBAY IN JULY, 1879 TO VISIT 
> OLCOTT
> 
> Olcott wrote:
> 
> "This same Brother once visited me in the flesh at Bombay, coming 
in 
> full day light, and on horseback. He had me called by a servant 
into 
> the front room of H.P.B.'s bungalow (she being at the time in the 
> other bungalow talking with those who were there). He [Morya] came 
to 
> scold me roundly for something I had done in T.S. matters, and as 
> H.P.B. was also to blame, he telegraphed to her to come, that is 
to 
> say, he turned his face and extended his finger in the direction 
of 
> the place she was in. She came over at once with a rush, and 
seeing 
> him dropped to her knees and paid him reverence. My voice and his 
had 
> been heard by those in the other bungalow, but only H.P.B. and I, 
and 
> the servant saw him." [Extract from a letter written by Colonel 
Henry 
> S. Olcott to A.O. Hume on Sept. 30, 1881. Quoted in Hints On 
Esoteric 
> Theosophy, No. 1, 1882, p. 80.] 
> 
> "[I] had visit in body of the Sahib [Morya]!! [He] sent Babula to 
my 
> room to call me to H.P.B.'s bungalow, and there we had a most 
> important private interview...." [Extract from Olcott's 
handwritten 
> diary for Tuesday, July 15, 1879.] 
> 
> =================================================================
> 
> CASE C: MORYA COMES TO BOMBAY ON AUGUST 4, 1880
> 
> Olcott writes that on August 4, 1880:
> 
> ". . . a Mahatma visited H.P.B., and I was called in to see him 
> before he left. He dictated a long and important letter to an 
> influential friend of ours at Paris, and gave me important hints 
> about the management of current Society affairs. I left him [the 
> Mahatma] sitting in H.P.B.'s room...." [Old Diary Leaves, Volume 
II, 
> 1972 printing, p. 208] 
> 
> Olcott's actual handwritten diary for August 4, 1880 reads: 
> 
> "M [orya] here this evening & wrote to Fauvety of Paris. He says 
5000 
> English troops killed in Afghanistan in the recent battle. . . ." 
> 
> ====================================================
> 
> CASE F: OLCOTT'S ACCOUNT OF MEETING MORYA IN CEYLON 
> 
> Olcott wrote:
> 
> "...on the night of that day [Sept. 27th, 1881] I was awakened 
from 
> sleep by my Chohan (or Guru, the Brother [Morya] whose immediate 
> pupil I am)....He made me rise, sit at my table and write from his 
> dictation for an hour or more. There was an expression of anxiety 
> mingled with sternness on his noble face, as there always is when 
the 
> matter concerns H.P.B., to whom for many years he has been at once 
a 
> father and a devoted guardian. . . ." [Quoted in Hints On Esoteric 
> Theosophy, 
> No. 1, 1882, pp. 82-83.] 
> 
> ========================================================
> 
> CASE D: OLCOTT'S ACCOUNT OF SEEING MORYA AT BOMBAY WITH SIX OTHER 
> WITNESSES 
> 
> "We were sitting together in the moonlight about 9 o'clock upon 
the 
> balcony which projects from the front of the bungalow. Mr. Scott 
was 
> sitting facing the house, so as to look through the intervening 
> verandah and the library, and into the room at the further side. 
This 
> latter apartment was brilliantly lighted. The library was in 
partial 
> darkness, thus rendering objects in the farther room more 
distinct. 
> Mr. Scott suddenly saw the figure of a man step into the space, 
> opposite the door of the library; he was clad in the white dress 
of a 
> Rajput, and wore a white turban. Mr. Scott at once recognized him 
> from his resemblance to a portrait [of Morya] in Col. Olcott's 
> possession. Our attention was then drawn to him, and we all saw 
him 
> most distinctly. He walked towards a table, and afterwards turning 
> his face towards us, walked back out of our sight...when we 
reached 
> the room he was gone....Upon the table, at the spot where he had 
been 
> standing, lay a letter addressed to one of our number. The 
> handwriting was identical with that of sundry notes and letters 
> previously received from him...." 
> 
> The above statement is signed by: 
> 
> "Ross Scott, Minnie J.B. Scott, H.S. Olcott, H.P. Blavatsky, M. 
> Moorad Ali Beg, Damodar K. Mavalankar, and Bhavani Shankar Ganesh 
> Mullapoorkar." 
> 
> (Quoted from Hints On Esoteric Theosophy, No. 1, 1882, pp. 75-76.) 
> 
> From Olcott's diary for Jan. 5, 1882, 
> 
> "Evening. Moonlight. On balcony, HPB, Self, Scott & wife, 
Damodar....
> [etc]...M[orya] appeared in my office. First seen by Scott, then 
> me....Scott clearly saw M's face....M left note for me on table in 
> office by which he stood...." 
> =========================================================
> 
> Daniel