Theos-Talk Archives (October 2004 Message tt00399)

Actually, "Ca" (the speed of astral light) or "Cm" (the speed of light on 
the, mental plane) must have some particular value -- since activities in our 
mind, whether thought or visual imagery, appear to change in a forward moving 
sequence... Even though the sequence is so fast, that our perception -- which in 
itself is absolutely still -- can detect and experience it (similarly to the 
way we see and think on the physical plane) when in any high state of 
meditation or when dreaming. Later, in retrospect, we interpret those experiences in 
terms of our slower physical time. They say that most remembered dreams no 
matter how long a period of time they are perceived to take place in, occur in 
the last few moments just before we awaken. This state is called "Mesmer sleep" 
and relates to the brain waves as they move from the lowest near zero 
frequencies and pass through the alpha state to the wakeful state. This also relates 
to our ability to intuit, apparently instantaneously in our sleep or deep 
meditation, the solution to the most complex problems that we can't imagine solving 
in the waking state. 

Therefore, since, the mental plane is still substantial, although of a 
subtlety and tenuousness that is far beyond our course physical senses to detect, 
the "information" field of mind must still have a vibration with a frequency so 
high that the change from positive to negative is close to instantaneous to 
our "physical" body's perception mechanisms (which, in this view, are 
essentially limited to the astral-mental planes). This accounts for the "life review" 
in a near or after death experience (NDE-ADE) -- that appears to our 
consciousness as if the whole sequence occurs as a single, almost instantaneous flash of 
insight. Incidentally, I went through an NDE many years ago and can 
personally attest to that experience. No matter how short a physical time it took to 
examine my whole lifetime in minute detail -- everything passed by my inner 
eye in continuous sequence from birth to death... And all that took less than 
10 minutes in the physical time that I was out of body watching the world 
around me in slow motion, yet apparently, physically unconscious (and in my own 
mind, dead). This experience, BTW, was what caused me to begin my in depth study 
of theosophy, and the latest developments in modern science that relates to 
its metaphysics. 

Therefore, since the visual review did occur on the mental plane in time -- 
which, being carried holographically as vibrational patterns, indicates that 
the astral light must have a particular velocity even though it might be close 
to infinite, and its "second" or smallest instant of time close to 
infinitesimal (but never zero, since we know that space is infinitely divisible). Thus, 
from a fundamental cyclic law point of view, and in conformance with all the 
universal scientific laws of mass-energy -- the vibrations of any light image we 
can experience in any field of matter-energy, from the metric physical 
fields, through the astral and mental, up to the akashic (ultimate "spinergy") field 
itself -- must have a time constant and a particular range of frequency as 
well as a limiting velocity between zero and infinity (and beyond). 
Incidentally, Cantor's Aleph mathematics of infinite sets proves that there is an 
infinite set of infinities. Modern science of course, has yet to come to grips with 
that, and its implication of infinite divisibility of space. When they do, 
perhaps then, they will realize that theosophical metaphysics and its seven fold 
fields of consciousness that are coadunate but not consubstantial -- similar 
to the multidimensional hyperspace fields postulated by Superstring/M-brane 
theory -- told them so since the beginning of Mankind's (mind beings) time on 
this so called "physical" plane. :-)

In conclusion, we would have to say that, in order for holographic sensory 
information to carry through analogously from Body to Brain to Mind to Memory 
fields, etc. -- energy must be governed by the same fundamental laws of cycles 
and periodicity as well as laws of electricity, magnetism, etc., that they are 
governed by on the so called "physical " or "metric" world we normally 
experience. Actually, since we do consider this realm as a space-time continuum, all 
of these inner hyper spaces, or the seven fold fields of consciousness 
theosophical metaphysics speaks of, are integral parts of it.

Best wishes,

Leon

In a message dated 10/25/04 9:02:52 PM, ekcvv@juno.com writes:
>
>I have difficulty in seeing that the same laws apply at higher planes.
>The laws that apply at different levels are different. One might say that
>the laws appear in a different way.
>For example if we take E=MC^2 ("Thus the equation E=MC^2 could very well
>hold on each plane"), we can interpret it on the physical plane. Let us
>try to interpret it on Mental plane. On mental plane everything is
>instantaneous. Heaven is where there are no opposites and a notion
>appears instantly and that is why the soul is in 'Happy' state always.
>So C has no value. Energy is very unlike E here. SD talks about causal body.
>The relationship of Causal to atomic level body does not seem to be the
>same.

In a message dated 10/23/04 8:34:17 PM, sensaru@bellsouth.net writes:

>What of the consciousness that generated the equation in the first place?

That equation came directly out of the original "spinergy" (surrounding the 
Absolute consciousness) whose inherent nature is cycles of Force that 
determine 
the fundamental laws of karma or action-reaction, etc. It's also the basis 
of all fields of substance or "matter." Therefore, the equivalency of matter 
(or mass) and energy applies to every plane down to the physical space-time 
continuum we live in that Einstein referred his equation to. Other than his 
individual consciousness -- which, as a single ray of the Cosmic 
Consciousness, 
"discovered," wrote it down and mathematically proved it for us -- 
"Consciousness" per se, that is beyond all space and time, and therefore, 
separate from 
both matter and energy has nothing to do with determining the immutable laws 
upon 
which E=mc^2 is based. Although, we might also say that -- since "spinergy" 
is the Force of consciousness spinning around itself, and therefore, 
essentially, a duality in unity -- "Consciousness" or Spirit has everything 
to do with 
it. :-) 

(Unfortunately, the word "consciousness" has different connotations depending 
in what context we use it, i.e., it could refer to "awareness," "will," 
"thinking," "dreaming," "imagining," etc.) In any event, it cannot change or 
modify the 2nd fundamental principle of cosmic laws of "cycles" and 
"periodicity" 
-- that implies the laws of both "symmetry" and "conservation" (of 
mass-energy) 
upon which Einstein's equation along with his theories of relativity and 
photo electricity are based -- as are all theories of physics from quantum to 
superstring/M-brane (on all its 11 dimensions of hyperspace-time).

Lenny 

> From: LeonMaurer@aol.com
> Date: 2004/10/19 Tue AM 04:06:52 EDT
> To: study@blavatsky.net 
> Subject: [bn-study] Re: Chapter 2 page 13 from Deity, Cosmos and Man 
> 
> In a message dated 10/14/04 11:31:28 AM, ekcvv@juno.com writes:
> 
> >The trouble is that whenever we look into Theosophy, the language seems
> >to be akin to physical. So, without doing it consciously, we consider the
> >other planes to be also physical in nature. We expect us to understand
> >them in a physical way and we think that the physical laws apply.
> >The fact is they do not!
> >
> >Gopi
> 
> Yes, but only if you define the word physical as "relating to the body as 
> distinguished from the mind and spirit" or "as relating to material things" 
or 
> "our 'physical' envoronment," or "relating to matter and energy or the 
> sciences dealing with them" -- as defined in the dictionery. 
> 
> But, if we consider that all the planes or fields of consciousness on the 
> meta-physical planes are of the same primal substance that throughout the 
> entire plenum is "coadunate but not consubstantial" and of varying density, 
> substantiality, or energy -- then, in effect, they are all fundamentally 
"Matter" 
> and/or "Force" of one degree, or phase of substantiality (frequency-energy
> -mass) or another. 
> 
> Thus, while the laws may be different in their numerical values, the 
> fundamental equations that scientifically define their meta-physical 
properties in 
> relation to substantiality (mass) and force (energy), should be 
identical... 
> Since, they are all based on the same fundamental laws of cycles and 
periodicity 
> (which is the same as saying, laws of "electricity," or laws of "karma"). 
> 
> Therefore, the fundamental law of E= MC^n (E=MC^2 in our physical space 
time 
> continuum, as Einstein proved using his vector analysis mathematics) would 
> follow the same mathematical relationships on the higher planes. 
> 
> However in the higher level astral-mental-spiritual fields the only 
> difference could be the numerical value of the power term "n" -- e.g., on 
> the Astral plane the equation might be, Ea=MaC^4 (with "Ma"" representing 
the 
> substantiality or density of the Astral particle-waves, and "Ea" 
representing their 
> frequency- energy level, and "C" still representing the speed of light on 
the 
> physical plane). Or the equation could be Ea=MaCa^2 (with "Ca" 
representing 
> the speed of light in the Astral realm). Thus, the fundamental 
metaphysical 
> laws, governing all action-reaction, harmony, etc., on any plane or field 
of 
> consciousness, from the physical to the spiritual, cannot be violated. 
This 
> would also include the scientific laws of "symmetry" and of "conservation."
> 
> Therefore, the theosophical metaphysical laws must be entirely scientific 
and 
> thereby analogous and corresponding (although of different values) on every 
> plane throughout the seven fold nature of the universe and all the beings, 
> sentient or otherwise, in it... (i.e.; The relationship between energy, 
density or 
> mass, and the speed of light must follow the same consistent fundamental 
laws 
> of cycles and periodicity throughout every field or plane of 
consciousness.) 
> 
> If this were not so, how could the phenomenal or experiential information 
> (related to karma) on the physical plane be transferred and carried through 
> every "coenergetic" higher field of consciousness (as vibrational patterns 
of 
> energy) to eventually reach the Akashic plane of eternal universal memory 
(as 
> skandas)? Therefore, "as above, so below," and the "laws of analogy and 
> correspondence" must hold consistently throughout the entire metaphysical 
> universe. 

> Best wishes,

> Lenny