Theos-Talk Archives (November 2004 Message tt00351)

Thank you, John, for this information. It is very interesting.

barbara



> Thanks for the extracts, I have run into interesting 
information about the 
> Jonangpa School which you show an extract from David Reigle. The 
paper on 
> this website asserts that the Jonangpa School never really 
become "extinct" but 
> that to the contrary continued to exist and today in our time has 
5000 Monks 
> and 40 Monasteries. Even more interesting is a recounting of the 
history of the 
> suppression of the Jonangpa and others by the Gelugpa School that 
details the 
> Political struggle involving outside "powers" of concern to the 
Gelugpa. This 
> is a most interesting insight from the viewpoint of "operative 
Karma" in 
> action. As an apparent result of the Gelugpa suppression in that 
time that was 
> dedicated to the deflecting of Foreign influence by the ruling 
power of China, 
> later in our time the Chinese, who back then were a "protector" of 
the Jonangpa 
> and several other Schools centuries later invade and ravage Tibet 
which in our 
> time was fully in the control of the Gelugpa resulting in the 
Tibetan Diaspora 
> to the outside world. I have never read this context before 
recently and 
> found it stimulating. With this new knowledge of the continued 
existence of the 
> Jonangpa School we might now perhaps be justified in expecting to 
see some 
> actual translations of their Texts from the "horses mouth."
> 
> Jonang Order
> http://people.freenet.de/gruschke.andreas/Jonang_paper_E.htm
> 
> Also, another nuance I recently have read is that of a unique 
School in Tibet 
> Called the "Rimed Movement, 1813-1899" this School revived 
Dolpopa's Teaching 
> and was not affiliated with any of the Classical Tibetan Orders or 
Schools 
> and was composed of individual Teachers who though independent 
were also 
> respected by the Classical Orders of Tibet. This context made me 
think about the 
> Mahatma's and how they were said to have a unique reception and 
respect by the 
> prevailing Tibetan Orders yet were "independent" of them in 
various ways.
> 
> There were three primary Founders of this movement:
> 1. Lodro Thaye (blo gros mtha' yas) 1813-1899
> 2. Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (jam dbyangs mkyhen brtse'i dbang po) 
1820-1892
> 3. Chogyur Dechen Lingpa (mchog 'gyur bde chen gling pa) 1829-1870
> They would have been contempory with Madam Blavatsky (1 & 2 
especially).
> Are there any references to them or the rimed Movement any where 
in the 
> Theosophical Archives? 
> A current Rimed Teacher:
> namgyalgar-Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
> http://www.dzogchen.org.au/rinpoche.html
> 
> Another thing is the usage of the terms "Father-Mother" which is 
seen in the 
> Dzyan stanza's "Father-Mother spin a web,"
> two of the three Primary Tantra's are specifically and 
respectfully referred 
> to as Father and Mother. 
> 
> 
> 
From:http://www.berzinarchives.com/dzogchen/major_facets_dzogchen.htm
l
> 
> "Within this scheme of anuttarayoga tantra:
> 
> father tantra emphasizes illusory body practice, 
> mother tantra emphasizes clear light practice," 
> 
> I hope Reigle is reading these posts, maybe he can give us his 
perspective, 
> as well as others on the Forum. 
> John