Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...
Jan 13, 2005 11:47 AM
by M. Sufilight
Hallo Cass and all,
My views are:
You wrote:
"Regarding your statement the act being helpful, I cannot follow your
reasoning. If you can expand on this I will certainly take a look at it, and
it may help me reach some sort of understanding of the Abuser."
My answer:
Well, according to me and the wisdom teachings we humans evolve - on a
certain level -through, what we expereince in life.
Well, then let us imagine a special child with a very special row of past
incarnations
which makes it suffer and in fact suffer spiritually if it is not
receiving - for instance -
sexual experiences which you mention as "an adult male masturbating
prepubescent boys".
I think, that Such incarnations might occur although they are seldom. Do you
disagree?
But this does how ever not imply, that one should feel free to do anything
in that direction to
(perhaps or perhaps not) compassionately "help" the child in any manner one
might see fit -
especially if one carries the name CWL and is a member of TS.
The problem was and is, that CWL appearntly seemed to have forgotten about
the greater picture
of the TS role in humanity's life, which he himself also was a part of when
he stated what he did
about these issue in letters and at meetings.
And the fact that some children later reacted as if they had been abused by
CWL makes the
situation even worse.
I am seeking to keep my emails as close to the facts as possible.
But I have to say, that one easily are being lead to conclusions, which
makes CWL and his books content impossible to promote to theosophical
beginners,
when the talk falls on HPB's use of words on esoteric occultism and wisdom
teachings.
Even CWL's good book the Astral Plane gets tarnished becuse he himself
through his
own statements allowed such a bad reputation to surround his aftermath or
personality
(including his spiritual occult activities).
The following might be helpful to make one aware of that things have changes
since 1906:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/parenting/pub-children-sexuality.xml
But there are of course a number of ideologies on the issue. And CWL's
version was just one,
which wasn't swallowed by the TS without some resistance at first.
******* ******* *******
From the vaults on Masturbation jokes:
1.
"Q. What is the most sensitive part of the body during masturbation?
A. Your ears - to listen for footsteps."
2.
A man goes to see the optometrist. The doctor tells him, "I need you to stop
masturbating."
The man asks, "Why? It doesn't make you go blind."
The doctor replies, "I know, but it's disturbing to the other patients."
3.
Q. What's the difference between a man and ET?
A. ET phoned home.
from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...
Dear Sufi and Bart
Just one more thing to add to this discussion.
In non-violent sex abuse cases, the abused, as a natural process of
stimulation,can feel sexually aroused, sadly what this does in many, if not
all cases, is to cause the victim to feel a certain sense of responsibility
for the act (the pleasure that sexual arousal causes in the body). This in
turn leads to psychological guilt for the pleasure experienced. e.g. If I
enjoyed it, then I am partly to blame and certainly guilty of it.
I have also heard the excuse made that child abusers are not able to
distinguish between filial and sexual love for the child and blurr the lines
between filial and sexual love. Either, because it happened to them as
children or they have brought it with them from a past life.
If you look at Karma, you could say, that the victim was either an abuser
in a past life, and Karma has brought to bear it's results. So, as a victim
in this life or a past life, the choice is theirs (the victim who is now the
victimiser) to end the cycle of abuse by not perpetrating acts on others
that were perpetrated on them, in this or other lives.
The same principle, I would imagine, can be applied to rape victims, victims
of physical abuse, victims of psychological abuse etc, etc. But try
explaining that to a person who has no belief in reincarnation and you are
left with a person who is psychologically damaged by not understanding "why"
it happened to them when they in some cases did nothing to warrant the
action.
This is especially the case in children, who only seek to please the adult
role model in their lives. They are left with not only psychological guilt
but also spiritual guilt. CWL was the cause of, not only psychological guilt
that his victims will carry with them all this life and probably more to
come, this spiritual guilt, for their part in an act that they had been told
was to be controlled as an unnatural act.
Regarding your statement the act being helpful, I cannot follow your
reasoning. If you can expand on this I will certainly take a look at it, and
it may help me reach some sort of understanding of the Abuser.
And my question to the group, which has fallen on deaf ears, "why didnt the
Master's recognise this pollution in Leadbeaters aura and disassociate him
from the TS"? This is a genuine question, I am not out to denounce the
Masters, but it is very puzzling to me how perfected men did not prevent
this imperfection from flourishing. They must have been aware of the damage
it would cause, not only to souls, but to the new society, (the TS and
subsequently the new world order) that was to be established, to help
mankind to evolve, if only to Plato's standard, Q "what does it take to be
moral" A. "Be good at being a man".
As far as CWL's compassion, I believe he used the TS as a means to gratify
his sexual and power perversions. I am not evolved enough to forgive this,
although I do not think CWL is looking for my or anyone's forgiveness. By
the continuation and lack of remorse over these acts, I believe he was
mocking not only the Masters but all of us who got sucked into his devotion
to the cause.
Horrible subject, horrible man.
Regards
Cass
"M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
Hallo Cass and all,
My views are:
Cass wrote:
"I define child abuse as an adult male masturbating prepubescent boys on the
grounds that it was better for their spiritual development."
My view:
I can agree upon that - when the child later honestly expresses that it felt
it to be wrong.
I say this, because as far as I know - it is so that certain persons has a
strange set-up
in the aura where such an activitiy could be helpful. But it is almost never
helpful to do what CWL admitted he had done (according to known online
documents on the Internet) even in these days.
Well allright.
I will add: I just know, that I will not claim that CWL hasn't damaged the
Theosophical cause because of his activities. I think I and others easily
can live without CWL's books and the atmosphere surrounding them because of
his activities while promoting honest
and compassionate Theosophy to the theosophical beginners or beginner
Seekers.
Well compassionate is compassionate.
(To Bart: I have noted you reply on the issue. And I agree with Cass' later
reply.)
from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cass Silva"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...
Dear Sufilight
I define child abuse as an adult male masturbating prepubescent boys on
the grounds that it was better for their spiritual development. I believe
that CWL distorted the truth to suit his own sexual gratification. Not
only was he a pervert but he was a hypocrite, and if he distorted the
truth at this level, god only knows what distortion arose from his
clairvoyance? Wasn't he the founder of a liberal religious organization,
probably like all the historical popes, Pope Leo 10th's amusement was for
5-6 year old naked boys to jump out of a cake, at the same time he was
offering "indulgences to heaven" to the sinners, so that they could either
buy their family or themselves out of 1000 years of purgatory. And this
was only one of the Popes of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Cass
"M. Sufilight" wrote:
Hallo Bart and all,
My views are:
Not I am not saying that it happened although there are documented
evidence,
which leads one to that conclusion when one views it in a timeframe
perspective. The question is also how do you define child abuse.
What I am saying and pointing my fingers at is, that the promotion of
CWL's
name
within and outside of theosophical circles is something, which is highly
questionable
to do when we talk about promoting real and honest theosophy with wisdom
and
heart.
Do you support CWL being promoted Bart?
from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bart Lidofsky"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...
M. Sufilight wrote:
Well Bart I think I referred on how to promote Theosophy?
My question is simple: Is it being done by having any kind of support
for
CWL ?
Try for instance to reread the links in the email I posted 09-01-2005
at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/20822
I have. You include reliable reports that Leadbeater taught young men
how to masturbate, and talked about priests who have sex with young boys
and how they should be punished. What does this have to do with
Leadbeater's teachings? Are you saying that teaching young men how to
masturbate is child abuse?
Bart
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Back to Top]
Theosophy World:
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application
