Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00279)

I totaly agree with Sufilight in his statements

plus:

Konstantin Zaitzev wrote:
"We don't compare with Blavatsky, we compare her followers
between them. I mean that the hard-liners had lesser impact.
Their best achievements were exact reprints of some old books,
and thay have done a good job, but not more."

I say it is a matter of quality, not quantity... Mead and others were 
doing a good job, not trying to 'sell' anything like leadbeater. 
You can say that the protestants have also a great impact in the 
world. Does that make them good? 

plus: leadbeater said that he was in contact with the masters. And it 
was said that to be in contact with a master one has to be pure in 
heart and actions. We all know leadbeater was a sex pervert. So, that 
makes him a liar. He couldn't by any means be in contact with the 
pure masters.

now i'll ask again.. WHY SHOULD WE FOLLOW A SEX PERVERT PSEUDO 
OCCULTIST, who was a bishop (when HPB didn't want anything related to 
churches in the TS). Who disrespected the personal lifes of masters 
publishing them. Who was a mere psychic in wanting of personal power 
and fame? And who failed the masters?

Why all this enphasis in leadbeater when we have much more to read?
William Judge was said to be a chela for more than 30 years, HPB 
herself said it, while Besant was only a chelain probation, not yet 
accepted.
And no one reads and talks about Judge... is all leadbeater this and 
leadbeater that....
Judge wrote A LOT! and very good material... and was faithfull to HPB

And what about Geoffrey Hodson? He was an initiate, and few people 
really talk about him... againg, all the atention is to the imoral 
leadbeater.
Many of Hodson's books were writen by order of his masters. His 
personal diary is in several parts better than the Mahatma Letters... 
and yet... Hodson is put aside. He was humble, he wasn't trying to 
sell anything. He was a true initiate, he wasn't saying "Look, I have 
powers, I am this, I am that"
An yet, Mrs. Radha hates him... says that all he has written came 
from his own imagination - of course she didn't read his diary 
published after his death where a true occultist will find occult 
truths, certainties... which are not opposite to nothing in the 
mahamta letters. 
But we know that Mrs. Radha doesnt like "masters talk", is not much 
into occultism... and prefers krishnamurti (who abandoned the masters 
because the aversion in relation to them leadbeater caused in him)

So, why should we ignore a chela for more than 30 years , an true 
initiate, the personal pupils of HPB, Mr Sinnet (who was also agains 
leadbeater) and stay with the Besant 'almost chela' and 
leadbeater 'sex pervert bishop' couple?

Now I understand why Mrs. Radha wanted to close the activities of the 
ES in Brazil, now I understand why so many had left the TS... the TS 
is dead, poisoned... If HPB was to be reborn, I am sure she would 
never join the TS

I know there are some wonderfull people in the list, who study and 
pratice and understand a lot. However, I cannot understand the amount 
of time many spend discussing here... and it is fruitlless.
The time for the TS was the 19 century... the spiritual ways have 
changed... now i understand why so many have left the TS.
It was already contrary to HPB years latter her death..

p.s - Pedro, remember Vani? She was a member of the TS and a free-
mason... now she is a protestant, can you believe it?
See... people change... leadbeater could have been something good in 
the very begining, but he changed, and he lost.



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@y...> wrote:
> My answer:
> Thanks Cass. Since the Masters are called pure, I will go and tell 
my 
> Master 
> that.
> 
> 
> I hope he has a sense of humour
> 
> By Purists I meant those people who will hear nothing against their 
own philosophies.
> 
> Cass
> 
> "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@s...> wrote:
> 
> Hallo Cass and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> 1.
> Cass wrote:
> "DONT YOU THINK THAT THIS COMES ALONG WITH THE JOB? OCCULTISM ON 
ITS LOWEST 
> LEVEL IS SPIRITUALISM VIA MEDIUMS AND ON ITS HIGHEST LEVEL IS 
SPIRITUALISM 
> VIA ATMA-VIDYA?"
> 
> My answer:
> I think my views on this are covered very well in my latest emails 
to
> Konstantin Zaitzev here at Thes-Talk.
> 
> H. P. Blavatsky wrote 1888
> "It must be remembered that the Society was not founded as a 
nursery for 
> forcing a supply of Occultists -- as a factory for the manufactory 
of 
> Adepts. It was intended to stem the current of materialism, and 
also that of 
> spiritualistic phenomenalism and the worship of the Dead. It had to 
guide 
> the spiritual awakening that has now begun, and not to pander to 
psychic 
> cravings which are but another form of materialism. For 
by "materialism" is 
> meant not only an anti-philosophical negation of pure spirit, and, 
even 
> more, materialism in conduct and action -- brutality, hypocrisy, 
and, above 
> all, selfishness -- but also the fruits of a disbelief in all but 
material 
> things, a disbelief which has increased enormously during the last 
century, 
> and which has led many, after a denial of all existence other than 
that in 
> matter, into a blind belief in the materialization of Spirit.
> The tendency of modern civilization is a reaction towards 
animalism, towards 
> a development of those qualities which conduce to the success in 
life of man 
> as an animal in the struggle for animal existence. Theosophy seeks 
to 
> develop the human nature in man in addition to the animal, and at 
the 
> sacrifice of the superfluous animality which modern life and 
materialistic 
> teachings have developed to a degree which is abnormal for the 
human being 
> at this stage of his progress.
> 
> Men cannot all be Occultists, but they can all be Theosophists. 
Many who 
> have never heard of the Society are Theosophists without knowing it 
> themselves; for the essence of Theosophy is the perfect harmonizing 
of the 
> divine with the human in man, the adjustment of his god-like 
qualities and 
> aspirations, and their sway over the terrestrial or animal passions 
in him. 
> Kindness, absence of every ill feeling or selfishness, charity, 
goodwill to 
> all beings, and perfect justice to others as to oneself, are its 
chief 
> features. He who teaches Theosophy preaches the gospel of goodwill; 
and the 
> converse of this is true also -- he who preaches the gospel of 
goodwill, 
> teaches Theosophy.
> 
> This aspect of Theosophy has never failed to receive due and full 
> recognition in the pages of the "PATH," a journal of which the 
American 
> Section has good reason to be proud. It is a teacher and a power; 
and the 
> fact that such a periodical should be produced and supported in the 
United 
> States speaks in eloquent praise both of its Editor and its 
readers. "
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-am/hpb-am1.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 2.
> Cass wrote:
> "THE SO CALLED PURISTS ARE IN IT FOR THE INTELLECTUAL ORGASM. YES I 
AGREE 
> WITH YOU THAT WHEN YOU SPEND YOUR WHOLE LIFE BEING AN EXPERT AT ONE 
THING, 
> YOU END UP BEING AN IDIOT IN REGARD TO EVERYTHING ELSE."
> 
> My answer:
> Thanks Cass. Since the Masters are called pure, I will go and tell 
my Master 
> that.
> >:-)
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cass Silva" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Answer to Leadbeater
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > Konstantin Zaitzev wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Sufilight,
> >
> >> --- In theos-talk "M. Sufilight" wrote:
> >
> >> But if this is done with an emphasis on forgetting the impor-
> >> tant doctrine of Atma-Vidya while clinging to almost promoting
> >> Spiritualistic psychic cravings, unjustified ceremonial magic,
> >> phallic teachings etc. etc. - we would do a bad job.
> >
> > ======================================================
> >
> > DONT YOU THINK THAT THIS COMES ALONG WITH THE JOB? OCCULTISM ON 
ITS LOWEST 
> > LEVEL IS SPIRITUALISM VIA MEDIUMS AND ON ITS HIGHEST LEVEL IS 
> > SPIRITUALISM VIA ATMA-VIDYA?
> >
> > I see that for some people Atma-vidya is just a set of slogans
> > like quoted above, which were alredy repeated throughout many 
letters
> > without any significant changhes. Then I'd prefer psychism
> > than SUCH Atma-vidya.
> >
> > BUT PSYCHISM IS ONLY A HALF TRUTH!
> >
> >> But the use of such labels are to be avoided when we talk about 
the
> >> beginner Seekers.
> >
> > I THINK MOST BEGINNERS START AT JOHN EDWARDS PSY- CHISM
> >
> > INTERESTING THAT WHEN YOU SPLIT IT YOU END UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE 
A 
> > FISSURE IN YOUR PSYCHE.
> >
> > It depends much on their background. Blavatsky taught good 
teaching
> > but she succeeded to repell from it as much people as possible.
> >
> > ====================================================
> >
> > SHE REPELLED THOSE SHE INTENDED TO REPEL.
> >
> > Secondly, her teaching is very sophisticated and can be fully
> > understood only by people of high intellect. But that intellect
> > is very often selfishly oriented, so the second attempt which
> > came from followers was oriented to more simple-minded but
> > sincere people. Not only Leadbeater has done that, those
> > followers who regard themselves "pure" HPB followers, made
> > their own expositions, but it seems to me that these are very
> > one-sided and based on the superficial understanding. It's like
> > a catholic an protestant understanding of Bible, or like mahayana
> > and hinayana.
> >
> > THE SO CALLED PURISTS ARE IN IT FOR THE INTELLECTUAL ORGASM. YES 
I AGREE 
> > WITH YOU THAT WHEN YOU SPEND YOUR WHOLE LIFE BEING AN EXPERT AT 
ONE THING, 
> > YOU END UP BEING AN IDIOT IN REGARD TO EVERYTHING ELSE.
> >
> >> I do hope you have taken care of those "labels" of yours!
> >
> > I alwas have to do something with them when translating.
> > HPB herself wasn't accurate with labels. She wrote about
> > nationalist movement, that it's good, but to for contemporary
> > reader it sounds like support of nazism! Probably she have
> > meant patriotic movement when an individual surrenders his own
> > interests for the common good of the nation.
> >
> > GIVE HER A BREAK, SHE WAS RUSSIAN!
> >
> >> So CWL said that.
> >> I disagree if he was talking about Theosophical beginner Seekers.
> >> But Blavatsky said something else didn't she?
> >
> > The same thoughts about uparati could be found in her worksv too.
> >
> >> He emphasised too much teachings on ESP, Ceremonial magic and
> > Magical
> >> sciences etc.
> >
> > There are really few books about ceremonial written by him in
> > the last years of his life. I don't know why so many people
> > emphasize them.
> >
> >> Try CWL's book SOME GLIMPSES OF OCCULTISM
> >> "THE THREE GREAT TRUTHS.
> >
> >> The three great truths are:-
> >> 1. God exists, and He is good.
> >> 2. Man is immortal, and his future is one whose glory and 
splendour
> > have no
> > limit.
> >> 3. A divine law of absolute justice rules the world, so that each
> > man is in
> >
> >> I must protest. It is my duty to do so.
> >
> > He simply borrowed them from the book by M. Collins written
> > long before. Subba Row wrote comments to that book and then
> > no one, including Blavatsky, was shocked by it. These are
> > precepts of western school of occultism having Egyptian
> > origins. Blavatsky belonged to himalayan school, while
> > Leadbeater and Subba Row to south Indian. Each of these
> > schools has its own manner of parlance, and a little knowledge
> > of theosophy is sufficient to understand them all.
> >
> > Moreover, we can't rely on HPB writings exclusively, for sometimes
> > they contain the statements now proved as erroneous, as her 
statement
> > about the Easter Island in SD vol 2. So in respect of proofs they
> > stand much in the same position as CWL works and statements.
> >
> >> But that is a rather poor impact when compared to Blavatsky's
> > impacts.
> >
> > We don't compare with Blavatsky, we compare her followers
> > between them. I mean that the hard-liners had lesser impact.
> > Their best achievements were exact reprints of some old books,
> > and thay have done a good job, but not more.
> >
> >> But Raja Yoga was used by Blavatsky towards beginner Seekers
> >> and not towards members within The Theosophical Society in a
> >
> > Leadbeater has also used "God" for a beginner seakers. :)
> >
> > CASS
> >
> > LIFE CALLS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]