Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00214)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@e...> wrote:
Dear Dallis and friends,

For the moment you give too much information, as you know it is 
Sunday and beautiful weather, so good for the GROUNDING factor.
Otherwise I go to fly!
My referenties are from 1. study physical body(anatomy and fysiology 
and pathology)
With that I use to write new things: like the work of HPB, 
Leadbeater,Motoyama,A.Judith, Charles Hempden Turner, Saraswati and 
many Theosofical lectures of Harry Upadhya and Radha Burnier,Taimni 
and Wim van Vledder and so on.Mario Schoenmaker gives a simple 
declaration of the rounds and time periods and its evolution.
The physical left and right brain working is a long known fact of 
matter.
Then Arundale the book of Kundalini I read too long ago, so I cannot 
say .
We have nothing on meta-physics if we don't know how the physics are 
working.We are on this earth and not sitting on a cloud in the sky.
Too much sunny, we will burn !
Thanks for your reply, I will read it later.
Vr Gr Christina
The 


> Mar 12, 2005
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Solar and Lunar as Higher and Lower Mind 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear C and Friends:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read anything on this from HPB that makes it clear. But 
if you
> have any, could give me the references? So if I say anything, it 
may be
> purely inference based on principles I am aware of, and largely 
speculation
> on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> First. I am sure that the economy of Nature has placed relevant
> analogies and correspondences throughout her systems, including 
ours. These
> correspondences enable and facilitate communication and ideas - to 
travel at
> incredible speeds -- wherein distance and time are not the same 
delaying
> factors we encounter in our daily encountered physical world.
> 
> 
> 
> Second. This enables communication between the 7 principles of 
man and
> also their communication through the physical brain (actings as a
> switchboard), so that there can be an outward expression to others 
of them -
> by speech, writing or any other means. 
> 
> 
> 
> Third. Between incoming sense impressions and ideas, and those 
which the
> Real EGO inside and behind the brain generates and chooses to 
express -
> there is an intense but almost immediate activity and response that
> evaluates the incoming, and then, responds appropriately to them as 
outgoing
> thoughts, feelings words and actions. There are it seems two areas 
of
> contrasting reflection, consideration and response. And these two 
are
> presided over by the HIGHER SELF (the ATMA) This duality has been 
named in
> THEOSOPHY BUDDHI and KAMA. (Or: (1) Wisdom / Idealism, and (2) 
Desire /
> Self-interested emotion.
> 
> 
> 
> This condition inside of us is like you or me when we use a 
computer - the
> computer is like the brain, it is an instrument - a switchboard. 
> 
> 
> 
> It receives incoming e-mail and after consideration the thought of 
the
> correspondent is written and sent. 
> 
> 
> 
> We all know the computer does not do this on its own, it has not 
the kind of
> individual or personal consciousness that enables it to act 
INDEPENDENTLY of
> human control. Thus all responsibility is focussed on the unseen 
and
> intangible controlling human factor. 
> 
> 
> 
> The electronic computer is recognized as a tool, but the electronic 
activity
> of the brain is mistakenly identified with the creation of thought 
and
> decisions. We have not yet developed (as a part of our independent 
and
> manipulative capacity) the tools necessary to penetrate behind the 
material
> surface-operations of the physical brain, although all 
physiologists and
> psychologists have received strong evidence of that existence. 
> 
> 
> 
> It is this controlling human factor we have to study to be able to 
advance
> in occultism. Occultism is a knowledge of the secret powers and 
factors of
> the MIND and of the reincarnating immortal EGO [BUDDHI-MANAS 
presided over
> by the HIGHER SELF -- ATMA].
> 
> 
> 
> We may say that occultism is the study of the development in the 
human mind
> (KAMA-MANAS) - or that which we call our own conscious, 
intelligent, mental
> and emotional workings -- using our LOWER MIND as a tool for 
observation and
> strictly honest, accurate and impersonal measurement. 
> 
> 
> 
> Any IDEAL (related to the principle BUDDHI) is of course an 
impersonal and a
> universal one, so that no isolated aspect of self-interest can 
possibly
> enter into it. In this process selfish and isolating emotion and 
desire are
> carefully separated from impersonal thought and universal, 
practical
> idealism.
> 
> 
> 
> Fourth. It is said that everyone in life tries to: "put their 
best foot
> forward." And whether it is the right or left side of the brain 
is not
> important; but, the quality of our motive is. 
> 
> 
> 
> You will find, I think that motive is the most important aspect of 
our life.
> Most don't realize this, and so, little importance has been placed 
on
> determining what motive is chosen, and whether there is value in 
using it to
> shape our choices or making recommendations.
> 
> 
> 
> Five We live in a materialistic civilization and its 
influences are a
> part of our lives - as you observe in the relations of parents and 
children
> and school activities.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing we are asked to observe is that between the astral and the
> physical planes and principles, there is an inversion or a reversal.
> 
> 
> 
> The phenomena of activity registered in regard to volition and 
thought in
> our human brains may be located in many parts of the Brain. Just as 
many
> parts of a computer are needed to coordinate a sensible response. 
> 
> 
> 
> Some experiments tend to locate response and activity to the left 
or right
> sides of the average brain. ( What about a "yogi's" responses ?) 
Men's
> response areas and women's response areas in the brain may differ, 
but the
> significance is still unknown.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole area is experimental and the reports we receive 
illustrate the
> nature of trips into discovery land. 
> 
> 
> 
> But there is evidence that all this has been done ages ago. I have 
always
> noticed that the construction of our physiological organs and their
> activities have been arranged by Nature (the Universe, and its 
secret laws
> and creations) far earlier than our probing and recent observations 
have
> revealed.
> 
> 
> 
> Next: It is apparent that ancient Indian psycho-physiologists far 
long ago
> had determined certain correlations. But what we have been able to 
read in
> the nature of translated information from them is to be carefully 
verified.
> The Vedas and other scriptures of ancient India will be found to 
conceal
> several codes wherein truths and knowledge is concealed in several 
ways.
> They cannot be interpreted literally. 
> 
> 
> 
> There is large gap between modern methods of gross physical 
observation and
> measurement and the ancient India approach using the keenly honed 
and
> carefully directed Mind, as a non-destructive tool, that could be 
directed
> in a harmless way to examine, not only the physiological actions 
that arise
> from thought / feelings, but, they carefully distinguished between 
the two
> -- which modern psycho-physiology does not understand or admit to 
in the
> rigorous way the ancients did.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words the 7 principles of Man and their interaction has 
not been
> first admitted as being profoundly causal. But even more 
important, the
> concept that Man is an immortal MONAD (ATMA-BUDDHI), and each 
incarnation
> is just a step forward, a "day at school," needs to be taken as a 
primary
> base. 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior even to that, one has to assume that the commencement of all
> "evolution" and "development" gives evidence of: 
> 
> 
> 
> (1) the descent of SPIRIT into matter, 
> 
> 
> 
> (2) the development of a virtuous MIND, and, 
> 
> 
> 
> (3) the MATTER being thus spiritualized and made pure by self-
effort, is
> raised out of the domination of KAMA (selfish desire) into the 
estate of
> BUDDHI-MANAS (the spiritual mind) of the MAHATMA.
> 
> 
> 
> It is said that the Mahatmas were once men such as we are, and they
> graduated from the "School of Life" ages ago, and remain as our 
friends,
> Elder Brothers and instructors alive on Earth today. 
> 
> 
> 
> THEOSOPHY would say that one has to learn, first of all, 
the "spiritual
> heredity" of man's physiological origins, and then when that has 
been
> grasped, an observation of the part played by emotion and desire 
(Kama) has
> to be identified.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, the vista of investigation would seem to demand that the
> investigator or scientist be able to act in harmony with the 
patient in a
> non-destructive fashion. To achieve this, the psychological areas we
> presently classify (generally and still very grossly) of thought, 
will and
> feeling can be more carefully probed (following ancient methods) and
> reinterpreted in the present.
> 
> 
> 
> There are NO short-cuts to this ancient and time-tested method. 
The person
> doing the testing" has first, themselves to become pure of motive 
i.e.:
> unselfish and universal). 
> 
> 
> 
> We notice that there is a kind of vainglorious motive activating 
most
> scientific research whereby the urge to be the first to describe or
> demonstrate one or other of the installations of OLD NATURE is 
exposed. 
> 
> 
> 
> That is unessential in reality, as a use of any such information 
can lead to
> abuse in the hands of those who know little or nothing of man's 
complete
> nature -- starting with the IMMORTAL MONAD in each human, as the 
CAUSAL
> BEING. 
> 
> 
> 
> Reincarnation as a process, and the gradual schooling of every 
human being
> as the intention and objective of Nature, has to be seen, 
understood and
> admitted. If this is not done on an impersonal and universal basis 
nothing
> of practical value will ever emerge.
> 
> 
> 
> Such activity, either by self-will (What is that? What is the 
motive? ) or
> from external stimulus (to be most carefully defined as to quality 
and
> patient personality history) needs to be classified and 
identified. 
> 
> 
> 
> I have always felt that the division of left-brain and right-brain 
was
> arbitrary -- a rough consideration but not to be interpreted as 
causal in
> any way. In our current system of observation and measurement we 
are
> observing effects, not CAUSES. We are, so to speak, observing the 
electronic
> actions of the 'brain-computer in use.'
> 
> 
> 
> The ancient science of psychology and its relation to physiology in 
Indian
> Literature seems largely to relate to the Vedas and commentaries 
thereon.
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore our use of specific words (not fully defined) designating 
the
> parts of the human psychology, devised and used by ancient wise men 
(and
> retranslated by persons who were NOT HPB) is for the present a 
puzzle for
> all of us.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to make specific responses to your inquiry, as 
I do not
> yet have such knowledge. And were I to obtain it, I would be most 
careful.
> Wouldn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> How can anyone have "happiness" without wisdom and knowledge of 
what it is
> right to do? Where do we secure a true knowledge of the essentials 
of
> "right livelihood?" We have the "Ten Commandments." Do we 
practice them
> rigorously? Here is a simpler rendition:
> 
> 
> 
> Kill not -- for Pity's sake -- and lest ye slay
> The meanest thing upon its upward way.
> 
> 
> 
> Give freely and receive, but take from none
> By greed, or force or fraud, what is his own.
> 
> 
> 
> Bear not false witness, slander not, nor lie;
> Truth is the speech of inward purity.
> 
> 
> 
> Shun drugs and drinks which work the wit abuse;
> Clear minds, clean bodies, need no Soma juice.
> 
> 
> 
> Touch not thy neighbor's wife, neither commit
> Sins of the flesh unlawful and unfit.
> 
> 
> 
> On Education, I refer you to HPB's The KEY TO THEOSOPHY 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a small portion of it:
> 
> 
> 
> "The best -- i. e., the most truth-loving, philanthropic, and 
honest -- of
> our Fellows were, and are, Agnostics and Atheists (disbelievers in a
> personal God). But there are no free-thinking boys and girls, and 
generally
> early training will leave its mark behind in the shape of a cramped 
and
> distorted mind. 
> 
> 
> 
> A proper and sane system of education should produce the most 
vigorous and
> liberal mind, strictly trained in logical and accurate thought, and 
not in
> blind faith. How can you ever expect good results, while you 
pervert the
> reasoning faculty of your children by bidding them believe in the 
miracles
> of the Bible on Sunday, while for the six other days of the week 
you teach
> them that such things are scientifically impossible? 
> 
> 
> 
> ENQUIRER. What would you have, then? 
> 
> 
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. If we had money, we would found schools which would 
turn out
> something else than reading and writing candidates for starvation. 
Children
> should above all be taught self-reliance, love for all men, 
altruism, mutual
> charity, and more than anything else, to think and reason for 
themselves. 
> 
> 
> 
> We would reduce the purely mechanical work of the memory to an 
absolute
> minimum, and devote the time to the development and training of the 
inner
> senses, faculties and latent capacities. 
> 
> 
> 
> We would endeavour to deal with each child as a unit, and to 
educate it so
> as to produce the most harmonious and equal unfoldment of its 
powers, in
> order that its special aptitudes should find their full natural 
development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should aim at creating free men and women, free
> intellectually, free morally, unprejudiced in all respects, and 
above all
> things, unselfish. And we believe that much if not all of this 
could be
> obtained by proper and truly theosophical education. " Key, 
pp. 270-1
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this proves to be of some help.
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> 
> Dallas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ==================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: christinalee
> 
> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:42 AM
> 
> To: 
> 
> Subject: Solar and Lunar as Higher and Lower Mind (Dallas)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hallo Dallas,
> 
> 
> 
> I think I found the corresponding factor in the Solar Higher Mind 
> 
> takes part in the Right Brain department and is corresponding with 
> 
> the SUN in West which is the Left eye. That all needs to be in 
balance 
> 
> with the Lunar Lower Mind in the part of the Left brain part and 
> 
> corresponds to East Moon and the Right eye.
> 
> 
> 
> The brain parts are working crosswise on the eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words the Right side of the brain controls the Left side 
of 
> 
> the body.( see Roger Sperry's findings in this= though still in the 
> 
> initial stages, shows each side of the brain handles a completely 
> 
> opposite but complementary mode of consciousness = very impotent 
for 
> 
> a Yogi.
> 
> 
> 
> The circuits of the brain are based on Ida and Pingala, 
consciousness 
> 
> or knowledge and action or physical energy. We see Ida and Pingala 
at 
> 
> all Three Major levels of the Nervous system..
> 
> 
> 
> Also there is the difference in Man's Ida and Pingala and Woman's. 
Also 
> 
> crossed Left and Right.
> 
> 
> 
> So if the schools learn children to use both brain parts, the 
> 
> individual can explore his own balance as strain, exertion and 
relax. In 
> 
> our country some schools use to do this, but not looking to the 
> 
> person. All have to sit and to listen and all are pushed in the 
same 
> 
> way of discipline. From there you make robots of them and 
workaholics 
> 
> and the competition factor, to be better than the others and that 
> 
> gives materialistic way of living and that makes unhappy!
> 
> 
> 
> If we say competition is good, for all needs to be some best, but 
the 
> 
> others have other best qualities. So even there needs to be harmony.
> 
> As you play volleyball you needs a good team and you have by 
changing 
> 
> the place.
> 
> 
> 
> I see the best with my son, he have his own drawing book and 
paintings to
> make and use it when he wants.
> 
> 
> 
> So if there is to much brainstorming he can relax in the creative 
way. And
> from there I can see his development.
> 
> 
> 
> The beginning of a better world starts with the teachings of the
> fundamentals for the development in happiness. As well as young and 
adults.
> The young ones have nothing on a adult teacher, who is not aware of 
that.
> The same applies for parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Learning and listening and relaxation(painting, drawing, building 
(Knex) and
> all kinds of art.)
> 
> 
> 
> Knowledge and Creativity.
> 
> 
> 
> So why the parents from now have not learned this?
> 
> 
> 
> Where we can learn better than in a non materialistic kind of 
school!
> 
> 
> 
> Vr Gr Christina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]