Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt01483)

Hallo Leon and all,

My views are:

1.
Leon wrote:
"Yet, when you read and interpret such books, even if between the lines to
comprehend their deeper meaning, you are using your intellect -- which is 
both
your rational and intuitive mind. "

It is not a true picture about what is going on, when one is reading a book.
Depending on who you are, you are often using
a) Your physical eye to read the book
b) your emotional body while reading it
c) your mental faculties and your intellect.
d) and to some of us also higher levels of consciousness - here you are for 
instance relating
the physical, emotional and mental facts to the Akasha recordings, and other 
issues. Fitting the importance of the
book into the evolutionary plan - the plans for the incarnations-cycles and 
more...

That is my knowledge.
I don't think, that we actually disagree about this.
Your use of words are just - as I see it - not giving the existence of a 
book
written by a Dhyan Chohan and perhaps Blavatsky enough credit.

2.
So Leon again we have what I wrote a few emails back:

To say, that Blavatsky did NOT write her teachings from any particular point
of view
related to "TIME, PLACE, PEOPLE and CIRCUMSTANCES"- when viewed in a
DEAD-LETTER manner -
is a mistake or at least not in agreement with the truth. When the teachings
are viewed in a non-dead-letter manner
much of her teachings are timeless no doubt.

That is the difference.
No physical writing can be said to be timeless. That is nonsense Leon.
When we consider, that the audience, language, the understanding of words 
and so on are changing,
I think the reader will understand my point.
Am I the only one here at Theos-talk who can see this?


An eaxmple is David Reigle's article at Blavatskyarchives
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle02.html

A few examples from The Secret Doctrine:
a)
"THE first of these Seven chapters has been attempted and is now finished. 
However incomplete and feeble as an exposition, it is, at any rate, an 
approximation -- using the word in a mathematical sense -- to that which is 
the oldest basis for all the subsequent Cosmogonies. The attempt to render 
in a European tongue the grand panorama of the ever periodically recurring 
Law -- impressed upon the plastic minds of the first races endowed with 
Consciousness by those who reflected the same from the Universal Mind -- is 
daring, for no human language, save the Sanskrit -- which is that of the 
Gods -- can do so with any degree of adequacy. But the failures in this work 
must be forgiven for the sake of the motive. "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-1-13.htm (The Secret Doctrine; 
vol. 1, page 269)

b)
"These truths are in no sense put forward as a revelation; nor does the 
author claim the position of a revealer of mystic lore, now made public for 
the first time in the world's history. For what is contained in this work is 
to be found scattered throughout thousands of volumes embodying the 
scriptures of the great Asiatic and early European religions, hidden under 
glyph and symbol, and hitherto left unnoticed because of this veil. What is 
now attempted is to gather the oldest tenets together and to make of them 
one harmonious and unbroken whole. The sole advantage which the writer has 
over her predecessors, is that she need not resort to personal speculations 
and theories. For this work is a partial statement of what she herself has 
been taught by more advanced students, supplemented, in a few details only, 
by the results of her

------------------------------------------------------------------------
[[Vol. 1, Page]] viii

own study and observation. The publication of many of the facts herein 
stated has been rendered necessary by the wild and fanciful speculations in 
which many Theosophists and students of mysticism have indulged, during the 
last few years, in their endeavour to, as they imagined, work out a complete 
system of thought from the few facts previously communicated to them.

It is needless to explain that this book is not the Secret Doctrine in its 
entirety, but a select number of fragments of its fundamental tenets, 
special attention being paid to some facts which have been seized upon by 
various writers, and distorted out of all resemblance to the truth."
(The Secret Doctrine; vol. 1, page viii)

c)
"The Stanzas which form the thesis of every section are given throughout in 
their modern translated version, as it would be worse

------------------------------------------------------------------------
[[Vol. 1, Page]] 23 PROEM.

than useless to make the subject still more difficult by introducing the 
archaic phraseology of the original, with its puzzling style and words. 
Extracts are given from the Chinese Thibetan and Sanskrit translations of 
the original Senzar Commentaries and Glosses on the Book of DZYAN -- these 
being now rendered for the first time into a European language. It is almost 
unnecessary to state that only portions of the seven Stanzas are here given. 
Were they published complete they would remain incomprehensible to all save 
the few higher occultists. Nor is there any need to assure the reader that, 
no more than most of the profane, does the writer, or rather the humble 
recorder, understand those forbidden passages. To facilitate the reading, 
and to avoid the too frequent reference to foot-notes, it was thought best 
to blend together texts and glosses, using the Sanskrit and Tibetan proper 
names whenever those cannot be avoided, in preference to giving the 
originals. The more so as the said terms are all accepted synonyms, the 
former only being used between a Master and his chelas (or disciples)."
(The Secret Doctrine; vol. 1, page 23 PROEM)


Further it seems very clear from reading the Secret Doctrine, that it was 
mainly directed at a European audience, and more secondary at an Indian 
audience.
We aught to remember, that the most of Indian population first was able to 
read the Bhagavad Gita about year 1950, when this book was widely 
distributed
to the Indian country for the first time in hundreds of years. The same with 
some other countries.




from
M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: To Krishta, Morton, etc...: About Anand's 
Latest "Answers" (2)


> In a message dated 04/22/05 2:45:19 AM, global-theosophy@stofanet.dk 
> writes:
> > Leon wrote:
> >
> > > "The only liberation intended was liberating people from their ignorance 
> > > of
> > > the true nature of reality. "
> > I find that to be exactly what I was referring to.
> > Removal of ignorance is the same as Atma-Vidya.
> >
> > About Karma - I will refer to the book The Key to Theosophy.
> I would add the Ocean of Theosophy as well as WQJ's Aphorisms on Karma.
>
> And for a theosophical yoga practice for purposes of self realization on 
> the
> inner level, I would refer to The Voice of the Silence coupled with
> Patanjali's Yoga Aphorisms (and its footnotes) by WQJ.
>
> > But Leon I do think that Blavatsky did very well. But what does the Master
> > think about it?
> I'm glad we agree. But, to find out what the "Master" thinks, you'll have 
> to
> ask one of them.
>
> > Are you a Master? If not - how do you know?
> That's for me to know and for you to find out. Since, the only way you 
> can
> know if anyone is a master (and of what) is "by their fruits."
>
> In this case, I know that I know. (And, that all that anyone has to know. 
> :-)
>
> > Leon wrote:
> >
> > > "It did not intend to teach those practices.
> > > Therefore, the book was purely intellectual in nature"
> > I think that is below your usual level of writing.
> Not when I'm talking about "religious practices" NOT taught in the SD.
>
> > NO BOOK is only "purely intellectual in nature".
> > Everything and all life exists on the seven planes of manifestation.
> > And a book written by a Dhyan Chohan exists on higher levels as well.
> Yet, when you read and interpret such books, even if between the lines to
> comprehend their deeper meaning, you are using your intellect -- which is 
> both
> your rational and intuitive mind.
>
> If anyone can see a ritual or religious practice recommended in the 
> teachings
> of HPB in the Secret Doctrine, then they are experiencing wrong thought 
> and
> therefore non pure intellectual discernment. Even the Book of Dzyan, which 
> most
> likely was written by a Dhyan Chohan, has to be studied intellectually in
> order to discern its deeper meaning.
>
> Therefore, all "books" teaching a science, a metaphysics, a philosophy, or
> even a religion, especially for the purposes of their comparison and 
> synthesis,
> are designed to reach us through our intellect. If the SD was otherwise, 
> it
> would not be so matter of fact, and would appeal more to our emotional 
> nature
> -- thereby being classified as a mystical or fantasy treatise, rather than 
> an
> intellectual one, as HPB intended.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Leon
>
>
>
>
>
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