theos-talk.com

[MASTER INDEX] [DATE INDEX] [THREAD INDEX] [SUBJECT INDEX] [AUTHOR INDEX]

[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: Theos-World The major conflict - exoteric ceremonies a la Leadbeater

May 29, 2005 10:16 AM
by M. Sufilight


Hallo MKR and all,

My views are:

Interesting comments you have there.

1.
My problem with Krishnamurti is, that he also dissolved the possibility of Chelaship
while saying that - Truth is a Pathless land.
As far as I know - Krishnamurti's teachings has not much to say on chelaship.

So we have to groups. One with a path of wisdom, but without the
possibility of chelaship or contact with Masters. And a dissolvment of the Theosophical Society as a fact.
Or at least a watered down view upon the matter. And Blavatsky promoted the importance of
Chelaship and the existence of the Theosophical Society.


The other group with heavy leanings on Christinaity (and we ask why?) while ignoring the Middle East
and using Christian-related exoteric ceremonial magic - something Blavatsky states the beginner-Chela should
stay away from. A group which has changed rules of how the magazines are being run -
and disallows criticism to be listened to in a constructive manner.
Something Blavatsky was against.

So we have two groups which teaches something which Blavatsky didn't.


No wonder - ship is sailing
in a strange water.

2.
And then we have a Sufi saying something, which easily could be related to the death of Blavatsky:

"After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, the followers will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their strength and weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good or bad, and this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - when he/she arrives.
If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely been developing themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied, they will be too blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher, for which appearance they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in default, to a different group. (And this groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) Again well and good : providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is offered to them again. This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower self. They will realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that the person who appears to be 'second' teacher is in reality - the first in importance.
Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and he/she will behave in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life easier, in most cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them things, which are only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality falls into place. The object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain valuable thoughts have been given to the disciples. In the second, they are tested by the means of these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped pieces of wood to people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom will give odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her followers. - If they try to fit these together however, and to make a pattern in his/hers - absences, - they are becoming 'fossilised'. Because, the Wisdom tradition has to show that the object of mankind is not to construct idols, but to follow a supreme pattern, which is learnt piece by piece.

Quite obviously the semi-blind among the people, during their 'waiting-period', will try to work out their own interpretation. They may, as have been done in the past, write books to explain what they have learned. This is the danger-point, because when a man/woman is accepted as, say, a philosopher (of wisdom) because she/he has written a book explaining a philosophy, he/she will not readily accept, that she/he only have been 'fumbling'. He/She has quite possibly become a prisoner of his/hers lower self. The self-conceit of the man/woman is now bound up with his/hers 'creation', the book or the method, which he/she has used to organise the fragments, which he/she has. He/she is probably or possibly lost - for the cause.
In order to break through this shell of accretions and fossilisations, the - second teacher - will tend to act in a different, perhaps in a certain dramatically different manner, from the original one. This could happen, to break the 'idols', which have been formed out of the thoughts, which were originally given.
So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about."



The last three sentences seems to be quite important.
Let us remember, that the Teacher which Blavatsky and the Masters awaited
should have arrived around the year 1975.



from
M. Sufilight



----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" <ramadoss@gbronline.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The major conflict - exoteric ceremonies a la Leadbeater


At 10:23 AM 05/29/05 +0200, M. Sufilight wrote:
"Revelation or Realization:The Conflict in Theosophy" by J.J. van der
Leeuw, LL.D.
http://www.tphta.ws/JJL_RRCT.HTM

An excerpt or two:
"A system of revelation is only possible when there is one oracle, or
channel of revelation, the authority of which is not to be questioned. A
plurality of oracles is death to revelation. When in 1925 it was announced
that the World Teacher would have twelve apostles as before in Palestine
and when Krishnamurti himself denied having any apostles or disciples at
all it was inevitable that members should begin to ask whether this
revelation as well as previous ones was to be trusted or not.
MKR Comments:

In hindsight after 80 years we can see that after Krishnamurti came on
board and started lecturing, there was no competition from theosophical
leaders. All we had was leaders who kept in the maintenance mode and
continues to be so even today. Also to be noted is that most growth
organizations have young or middle aged leadership. If you look at the age
of the leadership since 1925, you will find most are old men and women who
should be leading a retired life rather than try to lead an organization.
While age and experience may be good for managing the day to day business
affairs, in matters spiritual, history tells that every leader has been
young or middle aged not a retired person trying taking on a second career.

Previously the ceremonial movements had gained their adherents largely
because they were announced as a preparation of the work of the coming
teacher. In his name and on his authority were they launched forth and
those who took part in them felt they were doing the teacher's work. When
he began his teaching and denied the value of ceremonial, calling it an
obstacle to liberation, there were again many who asked themselves how
this contradiction could be explained. Many and ingenious were the
explanations put forward, but the fact remained that the faith in
revelation had been shaken forever. The consequence of this has been that
the work and self-sacrifice of members in so far as these were based on
such faith in revelations, has fallen off considerably. In the hearts of
many doubt and despair have taken the place of unquestioning belief. The
inevitable result is a process of disintegration, in which many of the
most serious members leave a movement in which they no longer have confidence."
MKR Comments:

Looks like many were looking for someone to lead them so that like a bunch
of sheep, they can all follow with blind faith. When one is told that in
spiritual matters a lot of self-growth and self-reliance is needed and when
K told the world that Truth is a Pathless Land, one did not know how to
navigate a Pathless Land.

....and...from the same...

"It is my intention in this lecture to seek out the causes of this
disintegration and, if possible, to find a cure. I shall therefore
criticize quite frankly. Now criticism has always been exceedingly
unpopular in the Theosophical Society. In theory our platform is free, but
in practice one who thinks differently from the rest, though perfectly
free to do so, will find no platform to express his thoughts. There has
always been fear of any idea that might disturb the harmony among the
members. Criticism, however kindly expressed, was immediately branded as
"cruel and unjust attacks," as "unbrotherly" and in the last resort as
being under the influence of the Dark Powers. It is the mediaeval attitude
of mind where the sulphur smell of satanic activity is detected whenever
an opinion is expressed different from its own."
MKR Comments:

Every organization wants control of the masses. It is done either by
physicial or spritualfear or hear after or fear of expulsion. So the above
statement should not come as surprise to any one. Anyone who is an
independent thinker is difficult to control and so reaction of
organizations is to be expected. Organizations tend to embrace people who
conform and who help them either financially or otherwise even though there
may be many skeletons in the closet of the person. By tradition each
organization/society tend to develop its own lingo of code words, and again
this should not surprise anyone.

For anyone exposed to theosophy, the bottom line should not be
organizations and personalities. We all tend to like some and dislike some
for varied reason. It is the philosophy presented by theosophy that should
be focus since in the ultimate analysis unless it is of help in a better
understanding of ourselves and the universe around us, it is of no value to
ourselves.


mkr


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 05/27/05





Yahoo! Groups Links










[Back to Top]


Theosophy World: Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application