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Re: Theos-World Thanks Jerry: Does GdP actually teach this view given by Frank?

Aug 24, 2005 10:59 AM
by Jerry Hejka-Ekins


Dear Daniel,

Yes, as far as I know, GdeP did not teach that men posses a divine soul and women do not. However, Frank may find a reference that may surprise us all. GdeP does have some teachings that appear to be completely unique in the Theosophical literature.
Jerry



Daniel H. Caldwell wrote:

Jerry,

Thanks for your informative posting below.

So there is no room for confusion or misunderstanding,
you are stating that as far as you know GdeP did NOT teach that men "possess" a divine soul but women
do not. Correct?

In fact, you wrote [with my comments added in brackets]:

"...GdeP of course recognized sexual differences in the physical body and the linga sharira, but the higher principles [including the divine soul] do not have sexual attributes and, they [the higher principles including the divine soul] are part of all
of our [BOTH male AND female] constitutions."

Daniel



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@c...> wrote:


Dear Frank, Daniel, Pedro et al,

As for GdeP's teaching on the seven fold constitution, it does

not

contradict HPB or the Mahatma letters in any way that I have

detected.

Rather, I found it to integrate together what was written in these sources into a rather clear explanation.
As for divine souls: GdeP of course recognized sexual differences

in the

physical body and the linga sharira, but the higher principles do

not

have sexual attributes and, they are part of all of our

constitutions.

Also, the idea of male and female divine souls is not a part of

GdeP's

teachings, as far as I know. He also does not endorse the notion

of

"soul mates" that we find in new age philosophy.
As for whether or not GdeP specifically said that Grace should not

be

Leader: I have not heard this. However, I do have some documents

here

that indicate to my mind, that GdeP did not expect any successor

to come

to take his place--whether that be Grace, or anyone else. On the

other

hand, as far as I know, Grace never demanded that anyone accept

her as

"Leader," in the sense that KT used it, as condition of

membership. She

never demanded it of me or my wife. Under Grace, things at

Pasadena

changed dramatically.
As for the homosexuality issue: I have never seen any text where

GdeP

condemns it. Grace Knoche, Kirby Van Mater, Emmett Small, Boris DeZirkoff, and Gordon Plummer were all GdeP's students, and none

of them

ever said anything negative about homosexuality in my presence, or

on

any recorded talks that I have heard. Lina Psaltis, who was

Boris'

student, had her own study group which I was privileged to have

been a

part of for eighteen years. One member of this study group was homosexual. Everyone was aware of it. Yet neither Lina or anyone

else in

that group considered him less worthy in any way.
As for Grace's part in the 1951 event: It is true that there were

deep

wounds, mistakes were made, and that the people involved, on both

sides

of the question, had to live with those wounds and those

mistakes.

However, I must say this: I had a chance to become very close to

Emmett

over the course of the last twenty years of his life. From that experience, I can say this with absolute certainty: The one thing

that

Emmett wanted to see was for the wrongs to be resolved, the wounds

to be

healed, and for the Theosophical Movement to once again become a

unified

force for the betterment of humanity. To get a feel for Emmett's attitudes on this, you might look through the issues of the

Eclectic

Theosophist from 1984s through the end where he worked so hard to promote the Theosophical Networking movement. An idea that G.de P.

also

tried to promote in 1930.
Best Wishes,
Jerry





Frank Reitemeyer wrote:



Daniel, Pedro, Jerry et al, at present I am occupied and for a

longer period

with other duties, so I'll have not enough time to make a search.
I would be glad if Jerry - or any other on this list - would

provide us with

an exact quote of GdeP's words on leadership of women in the TM.

I think it was in one of his circulars, but I can err as it is

over ten

years back when I read it.
I associate it with GdeP's condemnation of homosexuality. It may

be the same

text.
We discussed the women and homosexuality question and GdeP's

views on it in

a local lodge, so I am quite sure this texts exists.
I think someone once said that widespread of this more esoteric

text is not

wished, because of the contrary Zeitgeist.
GdeP said that his hint - not to make a woman a leader as a

general rule -

must be followed for some centuries to follow, because of the

present

conditions of the astral world.
Obviously, women are closer to the astral world than men.

But I think, in the curse of time, there may be many serious

theosophical

students out there, which would like to study GdeP's hints.
When we discussed it, others shared their memories about the

words of Elsie

Benjamin, who in the 1980's was sometimes in Berlin.
She was the private secretary to GdeP and told many interesting

details. She

reported, too, his views on women and that GdeP did not want that

Grace F.

Knoche ever gets a leading post.
To prevent this he even once used occult power. The irony of

history is that

she was instrumental in the 1946 conspiracy against GdeP's

closest chelas

and became President of a "Theosophical Society" in the 1970's,

of which W.

Emmett Small wrote in sharp words.

Contrary to Danil (or others) I see NO CONTRADICTION between the

views I

impute to GdeP and the views of KH.
I am rather really shocked that one can see such a contradiction.

I had to

exert myself much to understand what you, Daniel, mean by this

alleged

contradiction.
But now I have it, but it is a riddle to me.
Frank

----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@y...>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:21 PM
Subject: Theos-World To Jerry HE: Does GdP actually teach this

view given by

Frank?


To Jerry HE:

Although I have read some of GdP's books, I am
not a close student of ALL or even most of his writings.

Can you tell us from your own study of GdP if he
actually teaches this view as given by Frank?

For background, see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/28014

Daniel
http://hpb.cc









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