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Re: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on

Dec 19, 2005 10:03 AM
by M. Sufilight


Hallo Anand and all,

My views are:

I think we have been talking about these issues before here at Theos-talk.

Maybe Anand, other participants to this thread as well as various theosophists could be helped
by reading a previous email of mine to this place:
http://theos-talk.com/archives/200409/tt00536.html
(And read also the links within the emails)
Especially this one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/17916

An major excerpt from the last link are given in the below
It is in part about what happened when Blavatsky died physically:

"After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, the followers
will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their strength and
weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good or bad, and
this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - when he/she
arrives.
If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely been developing
themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied, they will be too
blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher, for which appearance
they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in default, to a different
group. (And this groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) Again well and good
: providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is offered to them
again. This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower self. They will
realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that the person who appears to be
'second' teacher is in reality - the first in importance.
Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and he/she will behave
in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life easier, in most
cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them things, which are
only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality falls into place. The
object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain valuable thoughts have
been given to the disciples. In the second, they are tested by the means of
these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped pieces of wood to
people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom will give
odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her followers. - If they try to
fit these together however, and to make a pattern in his/hers - absences, - they
are becoming 'fossilised'. Because, the Wisdom tradition has to show that the
object of mankind is not to construct idols, but to follow a supreme pattern,
which is learnt piece by piece.

When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of fallowness, because the
one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of stagnation. This
period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time, which passes,
the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by natural means.
Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really knowing, what they
are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know they are.
The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of assumption of
authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the original
mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, because the longer
they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or the three lower
bodies) asserts it self.
Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. Some certainly
fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order to serve them. The
people who joins these are at great pains to explain why they consider, that
they represent the same kind of teaching - and this is important. It is
important, because it shows the Theosophist or the real spiritually minded, very
clearly, that the people who try to explain - are in fact troubled by
conscience. Somewhere inside them, they know, that they are identifying
themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are supported by their
lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is too strong for them.
Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking-patterns and systems.
It is via the conscience, that one finds the path forward, - thereby will be
able to remove the limitations of the lower personality."

And again:
So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to support a
system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in which the
Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of ideas and
movements. This seems important to understand and know about.

My views is:
Dead-letter teachings has never been the hallmark of real theosophy.
There is actually no need to use the very words "theosophy" or "Theosophical"
when TODAY forwarding true and honest teachings (related to time, place and people mind you)
about the Path or Atma-Vidya etc...
Today a number of wellmeaning Theosophists forget too much to CLEARLY point
this out to Seekers they themselves teach or guide.

What we don't need is the create yet a new set of branches each of them being sort of
"Bible-collection"-studying sects accepting only dead-letter teachings (as main teachings)
containing the words "Theosophical" or "theosophy" as a NECESSITY.
And with each sect using their own Bible-collection.

Another excerpt trying to some how escape business as usual:
"So how is the development of The Theosophical Soceity and various theosophical groups going to be in the future - IF - we as a minimum base our views on my above email - while keeping the link to J.J. van der Leeuw pamphlet in the first link in the above in mind?

We could with some adavantage ponder on the following questions:
1. Who is (or was) the "second teacher(s)" - if any - within Theosophy? - And will there be or has there been a third, fourth or fifth teacher?
2. Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second teacher" within theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a theosophical Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and psychological teachings as the main objective?
3. And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society merely as an emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance with the original ideas or with the wisdom teachings?
4. Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance of the theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - and not knowing to be so?
5. Who have merely been writing interpretations on the theosophical teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - and had success in building an marked increase in support to the theosophical cause?
6. - And who have merely been writing interpretations on the theosophical teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - but failed to build an marked increase in support to the theosophical cause?
7. Is your conscience not telling you that a teaching which are labelled as "secondary" is not as good as a teaching named "primary" -
with a "primary" and up-to-date Teacher guiding you? (A Teacher who is alive - and - not living in the past guiding you with "past" teachings.)
8. Have you actually matured visibly as a Seeker beyond the average fellow-human-beings level of consciuosness just by reading a few theosophical books or even one hundred of them? And do all Seekers who do that mature beyond that level?
9. Can real theosophical teaching happen in randomly collected groups - where the listeners are not in harmony with each other, the teacher, time, place and circumstances? (Are it just not merely information stimulating the intellect which are being exchanged?)
9. Can the blind lead the blinder? (Maybe it is good to be honest about how blind one is.)
10. Do you not need a - real - teacher first?
11. Can Universal Brotherhood be created or is it just merely a dream with all those theosophical sects (and Sisterhoods >:-)...) around in the world?
Sects because they do not openly tell the Seekers how they relate to other theosophical groups year 2004.
12. Will the Theosophical Societies and other theosophical groups create a good furtherance of its teachings through promotion of so-called "spritiaul Master Revelations" presented or treated by various Theosophical leaders as an authority? (What was good in the good old days - is maybe not good today.)
13. Is the furtherance of the theosophical teachings based on giving more emphasis to the opening of the spiritual Heart, love and unselfsh healing more than what can be termed "business-as-usual" or the spiritual support of emotional get-to-gethers?
14. How aught one to promote oneself as a Teacher of theosophy? And how not?
15. How do I promote Theosophy at work? Through social-get-togethers?


My views are:
Answering these questions will provide material enough to write several volumes of text.
At this place we call Theos-Talk, we dare challenge leadership and how it aught to be used theosophically speaking.
At various theosophical groups leadership are not allowed to be challenged. Some of the reasons for this I think J.J. van der Leeuw has presented in his still important pamphlet. Blavatsky was challenged and allowed it to happen to a very great extend."


And again:
So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to support a
system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in which the
Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of ideas and
movements. This seems important to understand and know about.



from
M. Sufilight with a smile...




----- Original Message ----- From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on


Dear Jerry,
While
it is not about Besant and Leadbeater, it is also not about
Blavatsky.
While TSA does publish books by Blavatsky, Besant and Leadbeater,
most
of their books are by more current authors on other subjects--such
as
Buddhism, mysticism, mythology, Feng Shui etc. What I am saying
is that
TSA does not promote Blavatsky any more than Besant and
Leadbeater. And
they promote books on many other subjects besides.
To me this does not appear right way of doing Theosophical work.
There are many other organizations already doing work of spreading
Feng Shui etc. TS had many good occultists like AB, CWL and others
in that tradition. TSA and TS should focus on spreading writing done
by these authors because this knowledge is not available at other
places. Also TS has some special philosophy to offer and that
writing is available because of clairvoyant investigations done by
occultists in TS. Quality of that is much better than writing
outside, in my opinion.


They achieved their objectives. That is, to centralize power and
minimize autonomy. Traditionally, Theosophy was promulgated
through
independent lodges where members gathered and studied, and
discussed the
teachings in Theosophical books. Through restructuring, most of
the
Lodges have disappeared and members have to rely upon their own
resources, or join the "National Lodge" which becomes the sole
voice.

This situation would make sick any honest member of TS.
Unfortunately decline of Theosophy has happened not only in America,
but also in Europe and many other countries. Indeed situation is
very bad. Membership is very low, those who are members have
negligible knowledge of Theosophy and have become fanatic. This
fundamentalism is driving away people from TS and Theosophy. This
failure of TS in last two decades is effect and every effect has
some cause behind it. So it is important to know causes of this
failure of TS.

Anand Gholap















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