Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt00651)

It is not true that the first object came along several years after 
the TS was created.  This argument is covered in "The Theosophical 
Movement."  HPB and Judge, both involved in the first TS, said the 
Mahatmas had outlined the objects at the time the TS was created.

Olcott, on the other hand, long argued that the objects were 
developed over time within the TS after it was created; therefore, 
the objects were under the control of the members and not wishes the 
Mahatmas expressed in the TS's founding.  Precise wording of the 
objects changed (was edited) over time after the first society was 
created, but the essential intent of the objects were in place from 
the beginning.

Krsanna

This is another 

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson" <kpauljohnson@...> 
wrote:
>
> Dear Krsanna,
> 
> Now I see this followup, and realize it was you and not Steve who 
> asked the original question.  (He had written me privately at the 
> same time.)  You wrote:
> >
> > Paul -- Thank you for clarifying your admiration for HPB.  Is it 
> > fair to say that HPB lived the first object as a condition of 
her 
> > life and worked ceaselessly to accomplish this among the many 
> races, creeds, religions and genders with whom she associated? 
> > 
> PJ-- No, that is anachronistic IMO.  The First Object came along a 
> few years after the TS was founded, and the sole objective of 
> the "original" TS-- to collect and diffuse knowledge of the laws 
of 
> the universe (pardon the paraphrase) strikes me as more or less 
what 
> HPB had been living all her life up to that point.  I don't think 
she 
> saw herself so much in terms of a mediator among or reconciler of 
> different spiritual traditions (or peoples) until after going to 
> India, which occurred around the time of the adoption of the First 
> Object.
> 
> snip
> 
> > viewed.  HPB said that "The Secret Doctrine," was written as a 
form 
> > of jnana yoga for Westerners.  The Bowen Notes:  "As one 
progresses 
> > in Jnana Yoga one finds conceptions arising which though one is 
> > conscious of them, one cannot express nor yet formulate into any 
> > sort of mental picture. As time goes on these conceptions will 
form 
> > into mental pictures. This is a time to be on guard and refuse 
to 
> be  deluded with the idea that the new found and wonderful picture 
> must represent reality. It does not. As one works on one finds the 
> once admired picture growing dull and unsatisfying, and finally 
fading
> > out or being thrown away."
> > 
> PJ-- I always loved that passage, but have heard or read that 
there 
> are objections to the Bowen notes, some case that has been made in 
> recent years that they aren't authentic.  Perhaps someone here 
will 
> recall details.
> > 
> > The main difference between age 20 and age 57 is that I know 
this 
> is the process of growth, that those who become fixed in dull and 
> > unsatisfying images are not progressing at a personal level.  At 
age
> > 20 I thought I knew it all, but at age 57 I HOPE I don't know it 
> > all.  It would be really disappointing to think that what I know 
is 
> > all there is.  
> > 
> PJ-- One of the notable features of visiting this yahoo group 
> intermittently over the years is seeing which members are saying 
> exactly the same things in the same ways, and which ones are not 
so 
> predictable.  I usually have a new set of enthusiasms every time I 
> come back, but often find people determined to fight the battles 
of 
> 1994-96 (re TMR) over and over daily.
> 
> > If this list is not of value to you at this time, then it might 
be 
> 
> PJ-- "At this time" is a very poor benchmark, in light of the 
> relentless accusations and insults from Carlos that make Daniel 
seem 
> like a piker.  Interesting in that they emanate from someone who 
> feigned interest in friendship but turned into a Theosophical 
> cyberstalker who outdoes his apparent role model.  
> 
> a good idea for you to leave it.  I do not say this with any 
rancor, 
> > but with an eye for what is best for you at this time. 
> 
> PJ-- At this time, a single hostile individual is going off the 
deep 
> end with relentless aggressive posts-- after starting out telling 
me 
> he was going to put an end to "twelve years of persecution" of me 
> here by Daniel.  From the looks of things, we could be in for 
another 
> twelve years of this kind of behavior.  Probably it's best for 
*most* 
> individuals to leave the list rather than endure such an 
atmosphere, 
> and I understand why Erica and Pedro have done so.  But what about 
> the group itself?  What is best for theos-talk?  Plenty of 
> listmembers seem to think that what is best for theos-talk is not 
to 
> let honest, sincere, and well-meaning people be run off the list 
by 
> fanatical bigots who are none of the above.  
> 
> > My hope for you is that you grow in the context of jnana yoga 
that 
> > HPB envisioned with "The Secret Doctrine," as expressed in the 
> Bowen Notes:  "... The process goes on, until at last the mind and 
> its pictures are transcended and the learner enters and dwells in 
the 
> > world of NO FORM, but of which all forms are narrowed 
reflections."
> > 
> I hope you hope that for everyone here- and elsewhere.  We can all 
> use such wishes.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
>