Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01265)

John-

You wrote:

   "Well, that is a fine purpose line and goal but empirical 
observation of History doesn't reveal such a consistent state of 
view although much of mankind subscribes to the altruism. I am 
content to abide by the rule "absolutes are unobtainable in the 
matter, energy, space and time creation." Try as we may still the 
small cracks of difference always appear as a law of functional 
reality, it seems to me at least."

I believe that history is something that will be interpreted 
dirrently by different cultures.  There are often cultural blemishes 
which exist whenever one nation or another attempts to interpret 
ancient history or even the current news.  The reason for part of 
this is simply the different belief systems which oftentimes 
discolorize both our interpretations of history and cultures 
different from our own.  So then two things exist that we readily 
misinterpret, namely ancient histories and modern day cultures (not 
to mention ancient cultures therefore even moreso).

   "I can agree with this view. I have had the view that insular 
separation of Disciplines to the point of non-communication of 
knowledge stymies and disarms mankind's ability to 
accomplish "understanding" and arrivals at a closer ideal of 
solutions. Often knowledge in one realm of knowledge simply never 
arrives where it can do the most good. This is seen commonly in the 
Medical disciplines, it is only in the last decade that cross-
communication of discovery has been facilitated largely in part to 
the arrival of digital technologies and Internet along with modeling 
and graphical molecular chemistry. This is one reason I like to post 
new discovery of science on this forum as it can if people take to 
time to look become a source of uplift of the minds and engage self 
correlation by the individual with Theosophical and experiential 
knowledge of each person."

I believe that the schisms of the fields of knowledge are actually 
part of the human condition as we know it today.

In other words, the nations of the earth are divided into wars with 
each other, each one possessing their unique national boundaries and 
land ownership.  Entire religions are at odds with each other and 
commonly fight amongst themselves, despite their common claims to 
serve a loving GOD.

Business corporations commonly compete with each other in a 
capitalistic sense, rather than unifying with each other for the 
benefit of the consumer.  Lastly, the different fields of science 
are fractioned into various parts, wherein entire school systems 
will specialize in one field of study (maybe medical, or management 
or computers), but not another.

I believe that all of these schisms come from a common source in the 
context of the human condition.  This is despite the fact that we 
may so readily accept the world as it is today, simply because it is 
all that we are commonly acquainted with.  The error that we often 
make as people is that things ought to be this way (namely the 
existence of schisms), but I suggest that we only make this error 
because we have scarcely seen anything else. 

   "The "Trikaya" are a long standing concept and there are and will 
be propositions on such Triad model that seems to be appreciated by 
the current context of Human mind. There is much that Blavatsky had 
to say as well as traditional Historic resources on the Trikaya. As 
I subscribe more to the Adwaita I don't necessarily posit a view 
of "spiritual body" as that connatate a "form" to the nonrupa 
reality."

Our terminologies are a bit different here, to be sure.  I'm using 
the word 'spirit' in more of the biblical context, wherein a 
differentiation is made (at least in the English translations, if 
not in the original languages themselves) between the singular 
universal 'SPIRIT' (namely GOD) and individual 'spirits' (namely 
ghosts).

Again, our terminologies are quite different, and even biblical 
interpretations themselves vary.  The Greek word for 'spirit' in the 
New Testament is 'pneuma', but is sometimes interpreted in different 
ways according to context.  As when Paul the Apostle mentions the 
triad union of man, consisting of 'spirit', soul and body.  In such 
a context, 'spirits' are differentiated from 'SPIRIT'.

"This is to me an inspirational poetic romantic context which on the 
one hand finds a contentment energy in the human mind as presented 
in many various works by different authors in effort to paint a 
reality for the lesser mind of each of us. But the Pure, Unmarked, 
Unstained BEINGNESS had not moved or changed in any degree, neither 
can it be surrounded as it is what ALL is found IN. It is a Maya of 
the Lila or sport or Game of Creation that forces description to 
find itself painting the illusion for the Senior."

I fully agree with you.  Our true beingness originates in the 
spiritual which is often unseen by us.  The 'darkened self' as I 
descibe it, is merely an illusion which seems to cover our spiritual 
essence as a deceiving veil.  As one comes to a greater existential 
awareness of greater spiritual reality, then these illusions that 
are generated by the materialistic mind begin to fade away.  The 
darkened illusion of the 'fallen sinner' is washed away when one 
becomes illumined to the spiritual perfection which exists within 
every living thing.

"The idea is that the lower becomes "Enlightened" and it, the lower 
now has possession of Enlightenment. But "Enlightenment" itself is a 
Nondual State and Reality that is without beginning or end and has 
existence when there is no "creation." It is the Natural Primordial 
Nature that can be "accessed" when rapport of Turiya, Samadhi is 
available to a person and the metaphor of "darkened fallen ghost" 
aptly appeals to a long line of skilled wordsmiths who present much 
loved and treasured works that are the balm and inspiration to many 
generations. So I have read at least."

Again, I fully agree.  Now there are two reasons that 
these 'wordsmiths' use anologies about the 'fallen nature of 
humanity'.  Either they are fully decieved according to their own 
dualistic mindsets (which is often, though not always, the case).  
Or they are using a romantic teaching device (a parable or 
illustration) to accomodate dualistically-minded students who can 
apprehend spiritual concepts only through the strain of a dualistic 
mindset.

In other words, the spiritually enlightened teacher must use 
dualistic illustrations and terminologies (much like many Bible 
authors use) to communicate a message to those who are 
still 'carnal' or dualistic in their mindsets, and can learn no 
other way.  They will choke on spiritual truth, and invariably 
misinterpret it, if it be spoken plainly after it's actual non-
dualistic nature.  But what the dualistic teaching method 
intentionally does is wear away at the dualistic pseudo-
consciousness of the ego, so that it may more quickly become brittle 
and falter.  Dualistic teaching methods act as a precursor to the 
plain message of non-dualistic truth.
  
"Basically your Sevenfold model is not much different from 
Theosophical, at least not so much that you will pay with your head, 
lol."

That's good to hear, lolol.

   "Patanjali's Yoga Sutra is ancient and some ascribe it to Govinda 
back when the Buddha was here. It describes the mind, consciousness, 
the Gunas, the Five Aggregates and Samskaras and elements of the 
economy of Being. It was, is still the entry textbook for the 
Ashrams of India and it the preeminent work bar any except perhaps a 
technology that appeared in the 20th Century that was based upon it 
in part that married technology with precepts. I encourage you to 
find a copy, let your energy take you to the version appropriate for 
you."

Thank you.

   "I have seen not too long ago contents that presented the "Steam. 
Water, Ice" idea, I just can't remember at the, moment just where it 
was, but it is one form of classifying the rarefaction's of Matter, 
Energy, Space and Time in a templated way."

I suggest that it is perhaps one of the simplest, and yet most 
accurate, illustrations that I've encountered.  Generally, a rule of 
thumb when communicating with others is to start with the simple 
illustrations first, and then gradually become more complex once 
communication is established.  This is perhaps for a threefold 
reason.

Firstly, we should not automatically assume where the other person 
is at in their level of consciousness and understanding, insofar as 
we invariably render misjudgments on the metaphysical maturity of 
others.

Secondly, if we present raw universal truth in it's purest and 
undiluted form, it can actually harm and confuse the psyche which is 
not prepared as yet to hear it.  It's like attempting to feed a 
whole cow to a person in a single meal, when the cow would be 
otherwise easily digestible to the recipient if served in smaller 
bitesize pieces over a course of many months.  But of course, that 
takes effort on the part of the instuctor.  And many times our 
conscious and/or subconscious desires are moreso focused on intimate 
spiritual communion with the other person, as opposed to actually 
giving our time and energies to bring the other to enlightenment 
after a manner of sacrifical compassion.

Thirdly, it may actually be that the other person is just as 
enlightened as we are, yet we are unaware of it, because they use 
different terminologies than we do.  They speak a different 
metaphysical language that sounds like gibberish to us, and so we 
prematurely assume that they are ignorant.  Foreigners don't speak 
articulate English the way that I do, and therefore I assume that 
they must be dumb when they speak foolish gibberish which I don't 
understand.  We each speak different metaphysical languages.

Again, this is why it is ideal to start with simple illustrations 
first, rather than to attempt to unveil the entirety of universal 
truth to a person in a single sitting.  I, of course, fall short at 
this many times.

   "Vince, you will observe that I placed the word "supervised" in 
the above. Gariaev states that the results of the discovery he and 
his team of scientists have found and recorded directly and strongly 
indicate an Overconsciousness that is administering and 
matriculating the activity of the Non-local Quantum Matrix at the 
Point "a" and the Point "b" of our individual physical forms. This 
means Pan-determination is coincident and active( consciousness at 
both ends and all points of Being). The Overconsciousness that 
supervises the Non-local Quantum Matrix (Alayavijnana/8th 
Consciousness) would be the 9th consciousness "The Great Mirror 
wisdom." 

Okay.  A supervisory 'Over-Consciousness'.  (Sometimes 
called 'GOD'.)  I'm in full agreement there then.  Only 
consciousness can inspire consciousness.  Consciousness cannot 
realitically emerge from non-consciousness, as far as I'm aware.

    "This purpose was one reason Madame Blavatsky labored so long 
and hard possibly, to communicate just that to her readers and turn 
them into "Seekers of Truth."

I'm glad to hear that.  Such is an enormous effort to undertake.

Blessings

Vince


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@... wrote:
>
> Vince,
>     Thanks for your reply and comments. I might return in reply to 
the 
> following:
> 
> >>but rather to potentially merge 
> different perspectives into one after a wholistic fashion.<<
> 
>   Well, that is a fine purpose line and goal but empirical 
observation of 
> History doesn't reveal such a consistent state of view although 
much of mankind 
> subscribes to the altruism. I am content to abide by the 
rule "absolutes are 
> unobtainable in the matter, energy, space and time creation." Try 
as we may 
> still the small cracks of difference always appear as a law of 
functional reality, 
> it seems to me at least. 
> 
> <<I believe that questions that commonly go unanswered in one 
field of 
> knowledge are often easily answered in another distant field of 
> knowledge.<<
> 
>   I can agree with this view I have had the view that insular 
separation of 
> Disciplines to the point of non-communication of knowledge stymies 
and disarms 
> mankind's ability to accomplish "understanding" and arrivals at a 
closer ideal 
> of solutions. Often knowledge in one realm of knowledge simply 
never arrives 
> where it can do the most good. This is seen commonly in the 
Medical 
> disciplines, it is only in the last decade that cross-
communication of discovery has 
> been facilitated largely in part to the arrival of digital 
technologies and 
> Internet along with modeling and graphical molecular chemistry. 
This is one reason 
> I like to post new discovery of science on this forum as it can if 
people take 
> to time to look become a source of uplift of the minds and engage 
self 
> correlation by the individual with Theosophical and experiential 
knowledge of each 
> person.
> 
> 
> >>Here is my own rendition of a 'sevenfold economy'," although I'm 
not 
> completely familiarized with Blavatsky's as yet.
> 
> Firstly, here are the three states of ENERGY BEINGS,<<
> 
>  The "Trikaya" are a long standing concept and there are and will 
be 
> propositions on such Triad model that seems to be appreciated by 
the current context 
> of Human mind. There is much that Blavatsky had to say as well as 
traditional 
> Historic resources on the Trikaya. As I subscribe more to the 
Adwaita I don't 
> necessarily posit a view of "spiritual body" as that connatate 
a "form" to the 
> nonrupa reality.
> 
> >>a darkened and fallen ghost form which veils the 
> spiritual body, when an entity's psyche is spiritually 
unenlightened<<
> 
> This is to me an inspirational poetic romantic context which on 
the one hand 
> finds a contentment energy in the human mind as presented in many 
various 
> works by different authors in effort to paint a reality for the 
lesser mind of 
> each of us. But the Pure, Unmarked, Unstained BEINGNESS had not 
moved or changed 
> in any degree, neither can it be surrounded as it is what ALL is 
found IN. It 
> is a Maya of the Lila or sport or Game of Creation that forces 
description to 
> find itself painting the illusion for the Senior. The idea is that 
the lower 
> becomes "Enlightened" and it, the lower now has possession of 
Enlightenment. 
> But "Enlightenment" itself is a Nondual State and Reality that is 
without 
> beginning or end and has existence when there is no "creation." It 
is the Natural 
> Primordial Nature that can be "accessed" when rapport of Turiya, 
Samadhi is 
> available to a person and the metaphor of "darkened fallen ghost" 
aptly appeals to 
> a long line of skilled wordsmiths who present much loved and 
treasured works 
> that are the balm and inspiration to many generations. So I have 
read at 
> least. 
> 
> Basically your Sevenfold model is not much different from 
Theosophical, at 
> least not so much that you will pay with your head, lol. 
> 
> Patanjali's Yoga Sutra is ancient and some ascribe it to Govinda 
back when 
> the Buddha was here. It describes the mind, consciousness, the 
Gunas, the Five 
> Aggregates and Samskaras and elements of the economy of Being. It 
was, is still 
> the entry textbook for the Ashrams of India and it the preeminent 
work bar 
> any except perhaps a technology that appeared in the 20th Century 
that was based 
> upon it in part that married technology with precepts. I encourage 
you to 
> find a copy, let your energy take you to the version appropriate 
for you.
> 
>  I have seen not too long ago contents that presented the "Steam. 
Water, Ice" 
> idea, I just can't remember at the, moment just where it was, but 
it is one 
> form of classifying the rarefaction's of Matter, Energy, Space and 
Time in a 
> templated way.
> 
>  << "All three are dependent upon the Non-local Quantum Matrix in 
> order to be operative and present. It is the ability of 
transference 
> of essential information and data between the physical reality we 
> know and the Non-local Quantum Matrix that is a critical function 
> the effects perpetual form transformation and change based 
> upon "ideal" requisitioning from the infinite "Archetypes" of the 
> Non-local Quantum Field as a gradual incremental gradient of 
> supervised transformation of all species of life."
> 
> I posit that consciousness is necessary for this to occur<<
> 
> Vince, you will observe that I placed the word "supervised" in the 
above. 
> Gariaev states that the results of the discovery he and his team 
of scientists 
> have found and recorded directly and strongly indicate an 
Overconsciousness that 
> is administering and matriculating the activity of the Non-local 
Quantum 
> Matrix at the Point "a" and the Point "b" of our individual 
physical forms. This 
> means Pan-determination is coincident and active( consciousness at 
both ends 
> and all points of Being). The Overconsciousness that supervises 
the Non-local 
> Quantum Matrix (Alayavijnana/8th Consciousness) would be the 9th 
consciousness 
> "The Great Mirror wisdom." 
> 
> <<Such experiences are apt to impress upon 
> us that the universe is larger and more intricate than we know<<
> 
>    This purpose was one reason Madame Blavatsky labored so long 
and hard 
> possibly, to communicate just that to her readers and turn them 
into "Seekers of 
> Truth."
> 
> Regards,
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>