Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01320)

Vincent <vblaz2004@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Cass-

What specific math are you referring to?  Translational errors or=20
otherwise?

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva  wrote:
>
> She did the math
> Cass
>=20
> Vincent  wrote: M Sufilight-
>=20
> Good advice.  No assuming then.  An easy snare to be sure.  And=20
all=20
> too common when conversations are relegated to mere text, and not=20
> conducted face to face where genuine emotions are more visible.
>=20
> I'm curious.  How did Blavatsky arrive at the number 64,000?  And=20
> how precisely is such a thing relevant, as the same errors occur=20
in=20
> the translation of any text?
>=20
> Most Christians specifically assert that the Bible is inerrant=20
only=20
> in it's original manuscripts (namely the Old Testament Hebrew and=20
> New Testament Greek), and that translations outside of the=20
original=20
> languages are inherently prone to errors.  There is a small=20
minority=20
> of Christians who assert that the English 1611 King James Version=20
is=20
> also infallibly translated, but such isn't a very wide view among=20
> common Christians of today.
>=20
> And who is Master Morya?  A living teacher or a spirit guide?
>=20
> Vince
>=20
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight"=20
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Hallo Vince and all,
> >=20
> > My views are:
> >=20
> > Let us not go around - assuming - what views the other emailer=20
has=20
> here at=20
> > Theos-talk.
> > If you would go back and read some of my earlier emails,
> > I think we will have to agree, that one could assume, the
> > same as you did in the below.
> > I will however encourage you not to assume too much at this=20
place.
> >=20
> > But as I have said to others.
> > I do care, you know...
> > I will always be there to if possible be of help to you...
> >=20
> > Let us all be happy...
> >=20
> > The 64.000 mistakes was a quote from Blavatsky. Blavatsky
> > was a founder of the Theosophical Society.
> > Blavatsky was as you know one of the chelas (theosophical=20
pupils)=20
> of Master=20
> > Morya.
> >=20
> > A drawing of how Morya (or the creature) sometimes looks like is=20
> here.
> > Blavatsky was involved in the drawing, when it took place.=20
> > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos14.htm
> > And this is a - photo - of Damodar Mavalankar, 1884.
> > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos20.htm
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >=20
> >=20
> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> > From: "Vincent"=20
> > To:=20
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:42 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the=20
> group
> >=20
> >=20
> > >M Sufilight-
> > >
> > > 64,000 mistakes in the Bible?  That sounds a little bit like
> > > overkill for your stance.  There's only 30,000 verses.  If=20
you're
> > > talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is true=20
for=20
> any
> > > language to language translation, sort of like when you=20
translate
> > > english to spanish or vice versa.  You'll have one or two
> > > translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant menu=20
or
> > > government sign.  But who cares?  Maybe you don't speak the=20
> original
> > > language.
> > >
> > > Now before you start a blood fued with me, please understand=20
> that I
> > > am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the Bible=20
is
> > > infallible.  I've not thrown any boomerangs at you.  If you=20
have
> > > difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any other
> > > metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you.=20=20
> Ultimately,
> > > I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus what
> > > someone tells me.
> > >
> > > Vince
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight"=20
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hallo Vincent and all,
> > >>
> > >> My views are:
> > >>
> > >> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better.
> > >>
> > >> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879=20
> mentions,
> > > that
> > >> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000=20
mistakes=20
> in
> > > the Bible.
> > >>
> > >> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"!
> > >> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the=20
Review.=20
> In
> > > the last
> > >> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest=20
international
> > > revision of
> > >> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-reveals=20
> 64,000
> > >> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the=20
Theosophists-a
> > > large
> > >> number of whose members are English patriots and men of=20
> learning-
> > > but rather
> > >> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton aggressiveness"
> > > against people
> > >> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some
> > > unexpected parabola
> > >> and hit the throwers.
> > >> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm
> > >>
> > >> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not quite=20
true
> > >> according to the real events of the past.
> > >> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth=20
might
> > > learn to
> > >> read in the
> > >> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings of=20
past
> > > events and
> > >> other issues.).
> > >>
> > >> Just some views.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> from
> > >> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----=20
> > >> From: "Vincent"=20
> > >> To:=20
> > >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM
> > >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to=20
the
> > > group
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Steve-
> > >> >
> > >> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical?
> > >> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly go=20
back=20
> to
> > > the
> > >> > Bible.  I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus,=20
Moses=20
> and
> > >> > Elijah, Peter and Paul.  Some of these are reported as=20
having
> > > raised
> > >> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves.  Metaphysical
> > > masters.
> > >> >
> > >> > But were these masters completely ethical?  The miracles of=20
> Moses
> > >> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten plagues=20
on=20
> the
> > >> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites.=20=20
> Further,
> > > he
> > >> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of=20
> genocide,
> > >> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the=20
earth.=20=20
> And
> > > the
> > >> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to=20
biblical
> > >> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal.
> > >> >
> > >> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into=20
heaven,
> > >> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with=20
supernatural=20
> fire
> > >> > from the sky.  Despite resurrecting a dead boy, according=20
to=20
> the
> > >> > scriptures.
> > >> >
> > >> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically=20
> recorded
> > > as
> > >> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced harsh=20
> cultural
> > >> > legalisms on women in their day.
> > >> >
> > >> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical?
> > >> >
> > >> > -
> > >> >
> > >> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient mythology=20
may
> > >> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the=20
earth
> > > prior
> > >> > to recorded history as we have it today.  But did these
> > >> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics?  Or were some of=20
> them
> > >> > bloody and violent as well?
> > >> >
> > >> > -
> > >> >
> > >> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery=20
> available
> > >> > within the human potential, each with their own=20
jurisdictional
> > >> > spheres.  One is a master of accounting, another a master at
> > > sales,
> > >> > another a master of corporate management, another a master=20
of
> > >> > artistry, literature or dance.  Still others are masters of
> > > ethics
> > >> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical=20
athleticism.
> > >> > Whatever it may be.
> > >> >
> > >> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'?  And a master=20
of
> > > what?
> > >> >
> > >> > Vince
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey=20=20
> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vince
> > >> >>        When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact the=20
TS
> > >> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an interesting
> > > point.
> > >> >>       I was originally involved with the TS years ago, and=20
I
> > > felt
> > >> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult
> > > literature.
> > >> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my own=20
> tastes
> > >> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined sense of
> > > study to
> > >> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts which, to=20
> me,
> > >> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual work. I
> > > wanted
> > >> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, which=20
> wisdom
> > >> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most
> > > importantly-
> > >> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts were
> > >> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient=20
> wisdom,
> > >> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the
> > > student. I
> > >> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and
> > > knowledge,
> > >> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could verify as=20
> real.
> > >> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental=20
> teachings
> > >> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, with=20
> which I
> > >> > would know
> > >> >>  what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was=20
always=20
> me
> > >> > and my  lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the so-
> called
> > >> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts us to
> > > quickly
> > >> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what=20
power
> > > is. I
> > >> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to find=20
out
> > > what a
> > >> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had,=20
being
> > >> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a=20
> shallow
> > >> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous.
> > >> >>        Therefore, I kept finding myself being attracted=20
back=20
> to
> > >> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, and=20
> other
> > >> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal in=20
> ethical
> > >> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the metaphysical
> > > study,
> > >> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is=20
> service as
> > >> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities,=20
while=20
> an
> > >> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and=20
misuse=20
> of
> > >> > knowledge.
> > >> >>        Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it came=20
> about
> > >> > through an open study of pretty much everything.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>   Steve
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vincent  wrote:
> > >> >>   Steve-
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting involved=20
> with
> > > the
> > >> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with=20
having=20
> a
> > >> > place
> > >> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and learn=20
new
> > >> > things
> > >> >> of a metaphysical content as well.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian fundamentalist
> > >> > churches,
> > >> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever attempting to
> > > bring
> > >> > up
> > >> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was told
> > > that I
> > >> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical=20
> experiences
> > >> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly aligned=20
> with
> > >> >> Christian doctrine.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical Society=20
is
> > > that
> > >> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, and=20
not
> > >> > solely
> > >> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. Please=20
> correct
> > >> >> me if I am wrong on this.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vince
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for=20
what=20
> you
> > >> > do.
> > >> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Steve
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Vincent wrote:
> > >> >> > Steve-
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I see=20
> the
> > >> > value
> > >> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my life,=20
my
> > > focus
> > >> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've=20
> already
> > >> >> poured
> > >> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical texts=20
> over
> > > the
> > >> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a very
> > > complex
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At this
> > > time, I
> > >> >> am
> > >> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large as=20
> HPB's,
> > > and
> > >> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand new=20
> text.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers whose
> > > specific
> > >> >> task
> > >> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not=20
have=20
> the
> > >> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for themselves.=20
I'm=20
> not
> > >> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any way.
> > > That's
> > >> >> > just not where I'm at right now.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through=20
natural
> > >> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of chemical
> > >> > modifiers.
> > >> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit entities,
> > > seeing
> > >> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And this=20
is
> > > the
> > >> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest inspiration.=20
I=20
> am
> > >> > just
> > >> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists between=20
> HPB's
> > >> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so I'd=20
> like to
> > >> >> learn
> > >> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of HPB.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Vince
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Vince
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of these
> > >> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are doing
> > > yourself
> > >> > a
> > >> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, and
> > > expecting
> > >> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable form
> > >> > intended
> > >> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to church=20
or
> > >> > temple
> > >> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do the=20
same
> > >> > thing.
> > >> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an important=20
> aspect
> > >> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human=20
being=20
> and
> > >> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will be
> > >> > something
> > >> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the ancient=20
> wisdom,
> > >> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. In=20
> other
> > >> >> words,
> > >> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to flesh it=20
> out.
> > >> > That
> > >> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the=20
> memorization
> > > of
> > >> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application of=20
> what we
> > >> > see
> > >> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind wakes=20
up=20
> to
> > > its
> > >> >> own
> > >> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Steve
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Vincent wrote:
> > >> >> > > Steve-
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about=20
Theosophy,
> > >> >> insofar
> > >> >> > as
> > >> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive in=20
such
> > > large
> > >> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as to=20
> where
> > > to
> > >> >> > begin,
> > >> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary=20
> abridgments
> > > for
> > >> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going to=20
have=20
> to
> > >> >> teach
> > >> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I get=20
> into
> > >> >> > extensive
> > >> >> > > reading of the core volumes.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute=20
> truth',
> > >> > both
> > >> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves those=20
> portions
> > >> > of
> > >> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm and=20
total
> > >> > grasp.
> > >> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not been
> > > declared
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. Hence
> > >> > universal
> > >> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories
> > >> > of 'absolute
> > >> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't believe=20
> that
> > > any
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in the=20
> first
> > >> >> place,
> > >> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly have=20
> errors
> > >> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether small=20
or
> > >> > great.
> > >> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations among
> > >> >> Christians.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vince-
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the term "Secret"=20
in
> > > The
> > >> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is also a=20
> bit
> > > to
> > >> >> > quick
> > >> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to study=20
> the
> > >> >> thing,
> > >> >> > to
> > >> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms.=20
> However,
> > > in
> > >> >> > doing
> > >> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way to=20
> begin
> > > to
> > >> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The Key=20
to
> > >> >> > Theosophy,
> > >> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or=20
something
> > > like
> > >> >> > that.
> > >> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of shorter
> > >> > articles,
> > >> >> or
> > >> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at the
> > > Public
> > >> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy Lodges=20
of
> > >> >> > different
> > >> >> > > types.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Perry:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses that=20
> you
> > >> > refer
> > >> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical=20
interpretations,=20
> much
> > >> >> like
> > >> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what some=20
of
> > > the
> > >> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible and=20
> the
> > >> >> Secret
> > >> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to be
> > > secret?
> > >> >> Does
> > >> >> > > this simply mean that it is occult (meaning hidden) in
> > > nature?
> > >> >> My
> > >> >> > > own biblical interpretations go very deep for me, and=20
are
> > >> >> anything
> > >> >> > > but dry, although I view Christian fundamentalists as=20
> often
> > >> >> > shallow
> > >> >> > > in their own biblical interpretations much of the time.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vince
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > plcoles1
> > >> >> > > > wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Hello Vince,
> > >> >> > > > Welcome to theos-talk!
> > >> >> > > > My background was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and so=20
as=20
> a
> > >> >> result
> > >> >> > > had what amounted to at
> > >> >> > > > least 5 1/2 hours a week of meetings to attend, and=20
NO
> > >> >> > questioning
> > >> >> > > what you were being
> > >> >> > > > told.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > The thing I've found with studying theosophy for=20
> someone
> > > who
> > >> >> has
> > >> >> > > studied the Bible is
> > >> >> > > > that theosophy and in particular the Secret Doctrine=20
> opens
> > >> > up
> > >> >> > many
> > >> >> > > interesting and
> > >> >> > > > profound interpretations of passages in the Bible.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > An interesting article written by H.P Blavatsky is=20
`The
> > >> >> Esoteric
> > >> >> > > character of the Gospels'
> > >> >> > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio-
> eso2.htm
> > >> >> > > > It's a good place to start as the Secret Doctrine=20
can=20
> be a
> > >> >> > little
> > >> >> > > bit daunting to begin with.

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