Tagore in the Middle East
Jul 29, 2006 02:17 PM
Dear Jayananda H. Hiranandani,
Thanks for your excellent contribution for our dialogue here on Middle East and Peace or War with Religious Motives.
Rabindranath Tagore was, or rather is, a great soul, and his literature is most inspiring.
(By the way, I strongly recommend the movie "The Syrian Bride", which I believe to be on the movie theaters around the world these days. A great movie on the nonsensical aspect of war and intolerance in the Middle East.)
Regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline.
Data:Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:38:11 -0700 (PDT)
Assunto:[Spam] A View from Tagore-Re: A Much Broader Question -Re: Theos-World JEWS, ARABS AND PEACE
> Further to my comment of yesterday, I am adding what Dr. Rabindra Nath Tagore has to offer. It is from a weekly California periodical called India-West. The date is circa October 7th, 2001. It is a letter to the periodical written by Dr. Ardeshir Damania of Davis, California. It seems to be a response to the well-known 9/11 tragedy in Eastern USA.
> Dear Editor,
> The great Indian poet/philosopher Rabindranath Tagore wrote a poem in Bengali in the 1920s at the height of the Hindu-Muslim communal riots and killings in Bengal, India. I would like to share this poem, as translated by Aurobindo Bose, with your readers. His words ring true in light of the recent tragic events of Sept. 11 (I-W, Sept. 14).
> Those who in the name of Faith embrace illusion,
> Kill and are killed.
> Even the atheist gets God's blessings -
> Does not boast of his religion;
> With reverence he lights the lamp of Reason
> And pays his homage not to scriptures,
> But to the good in man.
> The bigot insults his own religion
> When he slays a man of another faith.
> Conduct he judges not in the light of Reason;
> In the temple he raises the blood-stained banner
> And worships the devil in the name of God.
> All that is shameful and barbarous through the Ages,
> Has found a shelter in their temples
> Those they turn into prisons;
> O, I hear the trumpet call of Destruction!
> Time comes with her great broom
> Sweeping all refuse away.
> That which should make man free,
> They turn into fetters;
> That which should unite,
> They turn into a sword;
> That which should bring love
> From the fountain of the Eternal,
> They turn into prison
> And with its waves they flood the world.
> They try to cross the river
> In a bark riddled with holes;
> And yet, in their anguish, whom do they blame?
> O Lord, breaking false religion, Save the blind!
> Save the blind!
> Break! O break!
> The altar that is drowned in blood.
> Let your thunder strike
> Into the prison of false religion,
> And bring to this unhappy land
> The light of knowledge.
> Dr. Ardeshir B. Damania
> Davis, Calif.
> Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> Jayananda Hiranandani wrote:
> Dear Inquirers:
> I wish to supplement as follows.
> The problem in West Asia is getting headlines these days. But it is has many similar situations elsewhere. Look at the India sub-continent with Hindu-Muslim conflict, Ireland with Catholic-Protestant conflict, the former Yugoslavia, Rawanda and many more.
> The basic question we should ask why does a person have hatred? I venture here and below to use the phrases of Mr. J. Krishnamurti that the individual problem is the world problem. Hatred is an individual problem. Theosophy, the Theosophical Society (Adyar, ULT, Pasadena, etc.) and many other groups elsewhere work for human regeneration.
> Is not the cessation of hatred in the individual human regeneration? We should examine what is, as distinct from what should be!. What should be is a fiction, where as what is is the fact. Movement away from the fact is the cause of the problems in the individual.
> Jayananda H. Hiranandani
> carlosaveline wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> Here, further below, we have an odd dialogue indeed, for a theosophical list: one person who proposes the exercise of collective hatred against the Jews, and one person who defends the Jewish people.
> I am happy to see that Democracy and respect for all peoples seems to be winning the WWII in Theos-talk. A war which did not really end yet.
> Some numbered items, not necessarily in a sequence:
> 1) My own perspective -- as things get more and more serious in the Middle East -- is that Israelian author and pacifist Amós Oz is right when he says the main conflict is not between Jews and Palestinians, or Jews and Arabs.
> The main conflict is occult and politically invisible. It is the conflict of Moderate Arabs and Jews, against Radical, Violent Arabs and Jews. That is, the real conflict is between the culture of peace (among Arabs and Jews) and the culture of hatred (among Jews and Arabs).
> From the viewpoint of universal brotherhood, this is also the "battle" we are all in, now. Every human being is at this crossroads. Innerly, Theos-talk is not apart from the Middle East, or from the whole world.
> 2) Now, of course, peace is inseparable from Truthfulness, Ethics and Justice.
> 3) As to the political-military conflict in the Middle East, what I say is: as long as the Arabs educate their children in the culture of Hatred and Death (as Hitler did), peace will scarcely have a chance. As long as some radical Rabbis can control moderate Jews, things will be difficult.
> 4) The Arab-Israeli conflict can get a wider regional dimension from now to 2012. Or it can be controlled -- who knows?
> 5) A scarcely publicized but real fact it that the president of Iran has a arab-messianic, pseudo-mystical view about the end of the world being near at hand, and he seems to be very interested in his own nuclear project.
> 6) The best some of us can do is to remain apart from Nazism and Neonazism.
> 7) On the other hand, I hope the next elections will bring a better politician to the presidency of the U.S.A. G. Bush the Son is not quite doing a superb job as president of the world.
> 8) I remember a sentence in the Mahatma Letters which says, in other words: "Each time a civilization goes for absolute Error, a geological cataclysm cuts is way and interrupts such a Path".
> 9) Theos-talk could be an alchemical laboratory to produce truthfulness and peace in the small measure we are able to.
> Best regards, Carlos.
> Data:Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:05:29 +0200
> Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World What has Theosophy to say about USrael?
> > Leon, I would like to begin with some quotes
> > before I reject your Israelian fairy tales:
> > 1. "The Jews might have had Uganda, Madagascar and
> > other places for the establishment of a Jewish
> > Fatherland, but they want absolutely nothing
> > except Palestine: not because the Dead Sea water
> > can by evaporation produce 5-trillion dollars
> > worth of metaloids..not because the sub-soil of
> > Palestine contains twenty times more petroleum
> > than the combined reserves of the two Americas;
> > but because Palestine is the cross-roads of
> > Europe, Asia, and Africa; because Palestine
> > constitutes the veritable center of world
> > political power, the strategic center for world
> > control."
> > - NAHUM GOLDMAN, President, World Jewish Congress.
> > 2. "Chaim Weizmann, JEW, the British War Cabinet,
> > and French Foreign Office were convince by
> > 1916...that the best and perhaps the only way
> > (which proved so to be) to induce the American
> > President to come into the war (WWI) was to secure
> > the cooperation of Zionist JEWS by promising them
> > Palestine, and thus enlist and mobilize the
> > hitherto unsuspectedly powerful forces of Zionist
> > JEWS in America and elsewhere in favor of the
> > Allies on a quid pro quo contract..."
> > - SAMUEL LANDMAN, JEW, "Great Britain, the Jews &
> > Palestine".
> > 3. "The study of Judaism is that of the Talmud, as
> > the study of the Talmud is that of Judaism...they
> > are two inseparable things, or better, they are
> > one and the same."
> > - ARSENE DARMESTETER, JEW, "The Talmud".
> > 4. "The rats are underneath the piles;
> > The JEW is underneath the lot."
> > - T.S. ELIOT, "Burbank with a Baedeker..."
> > 5. "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
> > but in ourselves, that we are underlings."
> > - WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, "Julius Caeser"
> > 6. "The genetic Khazar-derivation of most Jews -
> > only the Sephardic may be accounted Hebrews by
> > blood - has been long if not widely known. Dunlap
> > at Columbia University, Bury
> > in England, Poliak at Tel Aviv University have
> > researched this "cruelest of jokes" and won
> > research acceptance over the past half-century."
> > - ALFRED M. LILIENTHAL,JEW, "The Zionist
> > Connection"
> > 7. "The conversion of the Khazars (to Talmudism)
> > had considerable and lasting impact on the Western
> > World."
> > - ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA (1956)
> > 8. "It strikes me that the Jews are specialized
> > for a parasitical existence upon other nations,
> > and there is need of evidence
> > that they are capable of fulfilling the varied
> > duties of a civilized nature by themselves."
> > - SIR FRANCIS GALTON (1812-1911), founder of
> > Eugenics.
> > 9. "Around 600 A.D. a belligerent tribe of
> > half-Mongolian people, similar to the modern
> > Turks, conquered the territory of what is now
> > Southern Russia. Before long the kingdom (khanate)
> > of the Khazars, as the tribe was known,stretched
> > from the Caspian to the Black Sea. Its capital,
> > Ityl, was at the mouth of the Volga River."
> > - SOLOMON GRAYZEL, JEW, "A History of the JEWS."
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > =>To give us some food or thought in countering
> > the below anti Semitic (i.e.,
> > anti Jewish) propaganda -- consider the folllowing
> > truths:
> > 1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two
> > millennia before Islam;
> > A lie. Israel was never a state. Even Israelian
> > archaelogist Finkelstein did not find any
> > significant jewish artefacts.
> > http://www.theosophical.org.uk/Biblunsbd.htm
> > =>2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling
> > themselves "Palestinians" in 1967,
> > two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood;
> > Jewish twisted, "license history" as KH would say
> > ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326).
> > No matter how the Palestininans called themselves
> > in the past, one thing is sure:
> > The land is called Palestine and the Jews have no
> > right to steal other peoples land with such an
> > argument.
> > But as you pound on the term "Palestinian", let's
> > examine the term "JEW" - it will turn out, that
> > the Old Testament has not a single entry of the
> > term JEW.
> > It will further come to light that the present-day
> > Jews are not the genetic descendants of the
> > biblical Hebrew tribe.
> > As we have learned World History is punctuated
> > with accounts of HEBREW deceit, treason,
> > treachery, and deception. One of the most
> > significant, if not thaumaturgical deceptions, was
> > the CONVERSION, by Sephardic rabbis from
> > Constantinoble, of about three million pagan
> > KHAZARS - an ASIATIC tribe with Mongol-Turkic
> > affinities - to the Hebrew religion
> > (TORAH/TALMUDISM) and then convincing Christendom
> > that Khazars are Biblical Judeans in Diaspora! The
> > Khazar's ancient homeland was in the heart of
> > Asia. They were a warlike, predatory nation whose
> > religion was a mixture of phallic worship,
> > idolatry, and lewdness. Disliked and feared for
> > their psychopathic behavior, the Khazars were
> > driven out of Asia by neighboring tribes. The
> > ignominious retreat became an invasion of eastern
> > Europe where, "driven by their own desire for
> > plunder and revenge" (Jewish Encyclopedia) the
> > Khazars conquered and subdued twenty-five pastoral
> > nations which they placed under "protective
> > custody" and from whom they exacted tribute. The
> > Khazars settled in the area between the Black and
> > Caspian Seas, gradually extending their conquests
> > northward along the Don and Volga Rivers until the
> > Khazar Khanate encompassed over 1-million square
> > miles. By 1000 A.D. KHAZARIA was the largest
> > kingdom in eastern Europe and one of the
> > wealthiest (in loot not culture). Yet, today,
> > Khazars have been virtually deleted from world
> > history because JEWS want the world to forget they
> > are direct descendants of Asiatic Khazars. JEWS
> > want us to believe they are descendants of
> > Biblical HEBREWS. They are NOT! Therein lies a
> > story. The Khazars' Hollywood-like
> > sexual excesses were corrupting tribal morale and
> > undermining military discipline. Khagan Bulan
> > wanted and needed a formal religion to instill
> > discipline and create tribal unity. In 730 A.D.,
> > Bulan invited representatives of Islam,
> > Christianity, and TALMUDISM to discuss religion
> > with him. After much deliberation the shrewd
> > Khagan selected the Hebrew religion, i.e.,
> > TALMUDISM (now called JUDAISM), to become the
> > adopted religion of all Khazars. (Like St.
> > Augustine, HEBREW, Bulan aspired to chastity and
> > continence "but, dear Lord, not yet."). Khagan
> > Bulan and 4000 feudal Khazar nobles were quickly
> > converted to TORAH/TALMUDISM (4001 foreskins!).
> > Gradually, millions of Khazars joined the ranks of
> > GOD'S CHOSEN. Bulan, of course, knew TALMUDISM was
> > a scam. It mattered not as long as his subjects
> > believed. Nor did it matter that Khazars weren't
> > Hebrews (Semitics). That was easily handled. Just
> > LIE! Claim to be JUDEANS! Emerging Christian
> > Europe would accept "Asiatic/ Judeans" just as
> > they naively accepted the Hebrew tribal-diety
> > Yaweh as their God. Undoubtedly, most enticing to
> > Bulan was Jehovah's covenant with his Chosen
> > People - and the Protocols designed to make those
> > hallucinations come true. Khazars (see: The Mob,
> > USA) were chiefly extortionists, slave-traders,
> > pimps, assassins, usurers, despised by their
> > Gentile neighbors. After generations of warfare
> > against the Rus, Varangians, Slavs and Arabs the
> > Khazars (JEWS) were totally defeated (1300 A.D.)
> > on the battlefields. Bereft of their land they
> > dispersed throughout Europe, and elsewhere,
> > explaining why 700-years later so many unwanted
> > JEWS reside in Hungary, Poland, Russia, Ukraine,
> > Lithuania, Rumania, Galicia, Austria - and Israel!
> > Culturally the Khazars left very little to
> > posterity. Not even a hint of their language
> > exists. But of the poison they bequeathed there
> > exists much (see, ILLUMINATI). Never before have
> > two such deviant races, ASIATIC KHAZARS and
> > SEMITIC HEBREWS, shared so many repellent
> > characteristics.
> > To further explain the devastating effect Khazars
> > have had upon Mankind we must briefly visit
> > England.
> > In 1775, while Adam Weishaupt, Satan worshiper,
> > revised the PROTOCOLS for Rothschild, JEW/KHAZAR;
> > the British dramatist William Sheridan, in his
> > play The Rivals, coined the word "JEW": a
> > derivative of the word "JUDEAN". The word "JEW"
> > had been used throughout history in a slangy
> > context (as "Hebe" was used for Hebrew; or "Yid"
> > for Yiddish). It was Sheridan, however, who first
> > legitimized the word "JEW", using it in print as a
> > proper-noun meaning a JUDEAN of HEBRAIC faith, but
> > applying it to a KHAZAR character. IT IS IMPORTANT
> > TO KNOW the word "JEW" does not appear in the
> > original Old Testament written in Hebrew; nor does
> > "JEW" appear in the Targums - O.T. translated into
> > Aramaic; nor does "JEW" appear in the Septuagint
> > (TORAH) - translation of the Aramaic into Greek (3
> > B.C.). The word "JEW" does NOT appear in any early
> > translations of the HOLY BIBLE (The Latin Vulgate,
> > Rheims/Douai, King James, et al). Therefore,
> > because the word "JEW" was not used until 1775, it
> > is WRONG to call Biblical patriarchs JEWS. They
> > were not. They were HEBREWS. Jesus Christ WAS NOT
> > A JEW. He was a rabbi (teacher) who worshipped the
> > Mosaic Law and despised the Pharisaical Oral Law
> > (Talmud). Jesus (if he did exist) was born in
> > Galilee ("Unclean Land of the Gentiles"). He may
> > have been Semitic but he could just as easily have
> > been Aryan. The New Testament conflicts on his
> > lineage. One thing is certain, he was NOT a JEW
> > (Khazar). It is also erroneous and deliberately
> > deceptive, to apply the word "JEW" to
> > Hebrews/Israelis (Semitics). Finally, the smear
> > word "anti-Semite," as applied to KHAZAR haters is
> > oxymoronic. The right word is "Judeaophobe".
> > =>3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews
> > ruled it for a thousand years
> > and maintained a continuous presence there for
> > 3,300 years;
> > Not true. Jews never ruled there.
> > OTOH, a funny thing: IF the biblical, thorah
> > reports of the Jewish empire are true history and
> > not only allegory,
> > then you say that the Jews must be devils as you
> > find dozens of references where their exterminated
> > their neighbours.
> > Mass slauters, genozids and terrorism, sexual
> > abuse are the main theme in the Old Testament.
> > Is it not anti-semitism to believe that the Jews
> > are able to do so many crimes?
> > >4. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish
> > >capital. It was never the
> > Never. Show me any proof for that. The Old
> > Testament and the Torah were fabricated during the
> > Middle Ages, several centuries were simply
> > invented.
> > >5. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the
> > >bible, but not once is it
> > mentioned in the Qur'an;
> > But that does not proof that Jerusalem is the
> > homeland of the Jews.
> > Theosophy says that the Jerusalem is not the
> > physical place on Earth.
> > The Jews have stolen the texts of the Aryan
> > mystery schools and have rewritten it for their
> > own sake.
> > The Jewish history is a fake from beginning to the
> > end.
> > Therefore HPB names them "artificial Aryans".
> > Show me the original texts of the Thorah, from
> > which the Jews translated into Hebrew so that we
> > can research whether the Jewish claims are true or
> > not.
> > >6. King David founded Jerusalem
> > Never.
> > 7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem.
> > Jews pray to the wrong Jerusalem.
> > There is a lot of geographic, geologic and
> > archaeologic evidence that the places of the bible
> > do not fit to the physical Isreael/Palestine.
> > See: Prof. Kamal Salibi: The Bible Came From
> > Arabia
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Salibi
> > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=br_ss_hs/002-5662211-4282432?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&keywords=Kamal+Salibi
> > Next you say, when you find a city namend Berlin
> > in the USA, that it is a proof that the Americans
> > founded Berlin in Germany and were the aborigines
> > of Germany.
> > >9. Virtually the entire Jewish population of
> > >Muslim countries had to flee as
> > the result of violence and pogroms;
> > That proofs that karma workes also for Jews.
> > Why are they then elected ones and have the right
> > to slaughter other nations?
> > The idiotic true believers and followers of Herzl
> > have launched as yet two world wars, but haven't
> > even now reached their goal.
> > Will they now launch a WW III for JAHVE - to
> > liberate us anew??
> > Frank
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