Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00385)

Dear LM,

I would to tell you now, if not only to explain it to you more 
clearly how certain folks tend to come across as academics or "text-
book" graduates of twisted Baconian sciences and in fact, deny any 
of the Goethean scientific approach in general.  I am not one of 
those people.  The perpetual "Doubting Thomas" who supposedly 
presents himself as someone in the pursuit of truth and fairness 
will never know much truth without first knowing who he is.  As a 
historian, I can see that the Israelites were often a people without 
a land.  Madame Blavatsky mentioned the Karmic effect on the Jews 
over various incarnations due to their animosity toward each other 
dating back before the time of Joshua Emmanuel the Christ and up 
until this very day.  

The false comforter "Jahve" tries to trick us into accepting him. 
But to bring us a lasting comfort, is the work of the Holy Spirit. 
Anyone that brings us trouble, anxiety, doubt, confusion, negativity 
and a host of other ill effects in his wake is a false Christ and we 
certainly have many of those people today.  So who tells the 
Christians that Jesus is a JEW?  Who decided this and why is it that 
Christians and Jews still await the coming of a man in flesh?  Many 
still do await the return of the Messiah and disappointed shall they 
be when he never returns in the flesh – for as per St. John, the 
flesh means nothing.  Yet, these groups will all find that it is we 
who must return to the Christ Consciousness, sooner or later and it 
is we who must find Christ in ourselves.  No land or any nation can 
achieve what we must travel inwardly to know and for those who are 
building the new Israel; what do YOU plan on achieving exactly?  Can 
you tell me LM?  

Now I will address your responses to me:

"Dear Logos_Student (whoever you really are), Well, you made your 
points the first time. Does it have to be repeated?  That seems to 
be another good trick used by the Neo-nazis and anti Semites.  As 
for the Subject line -- the question is, who instigated it? The 
kettle calling the pan black doesn't cut it in my book"

My intention here is to engage in discussion and share my thoughts 
with others over what kind of corruption might be going on in the 
world today and to hopefully also receive some feedback from those 
of you who have also researched.  My intention is to combine 
spiritual understanding with constructive exoteric research and help 
to remove our veils of darkness covering our clouded 
personalities.   I am now reading a book by Robert Gaylon Ross Sr. 
called "The Elite Don't Dare Let Us Tell the People."  This book 
mentions much deep insight on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, - 
including some eye opening new research.  Mr. Ross is a meticulous 
researcher of history and if anyone were to imply that he was 
a "Nazi" than I suppose it would be someone like you who demands 
political correctness.  The last time I checked, the true seekers of 
truth throughout all history cared little for being politically 
correct; nor were their deeds merely forged by any pen   I read many 
such books and I do not like to label any book or person as 
being "anti-Semitic" just because it goes against the mainstream 
view or politically correct ideas.  Furthermore, those who use such 
nonsense words as "anti-Semitic" are barely equipped to understand 
the very meaning of the word.  I have kindly asked of Frank and the 
others here for some help in answering some of my burning questions –
 I see these people as further along the path than I am and yet, you 
are calling these good souls, NAZIS!  

Still I do have many questions and there is much I do not know.  I 
still hope that some of my concerns will be addressed.  Likewise you 
know very little about me and for you to assume that anyone "whoever 
I really am" and for you to imply "I already made my points the 
first time" "and don't need to repeat them" with the implied dire 
possibility of it being "another good trick used by the Neo-nazis 
and anti-Semites" is nothing less than your own egoistic idea that 
I've have already finished the discussion.  On the contrary – I have 
just begun…sorry to disappoint you.  I may be new to Blavatsky and 
Steiner and such teachings but I am certainly not new to 
understanding the basic usage of coercion when in a discussion.    

"LM: I did not say "all Muslims," but only, "supporters of Hezbollah"
(unfortunately leaving out the word "terrorists") -- referring to 
those that
hate the Jews, wish to exterminate them, and initiated, prior to 
this Israeli counter
attack (not "invasion"), sneak attacks on Israel civilians using 
fanatic,
self immolating bomb carriers, unprovoked raids, kidnappings, 
killing of
soldiers in Israeli territory, and rocket attacks on civilian 
targets. The word
"murder" is pretty strong to apply to accidental civilian deaths 
because they
were near military targets being counter attacked."
  
Now one good way to sway away from any "real" discussion is by 
distraction through entertaining certain non-progressive ideas. You 
know the "correctors" who never seem to see the bigger picture?   
Some people, from their first through to their last post, offer very 
little of progressiveness in sharing and only seem to present 
themselves as a "corrector" of error and perhaps think of themselves 
as an open-minded seeker of truth as well.  Well, I just hope these 
individuals understand clearly the difference between a true 
progressive and a non-progressive personality engaging in 
discussion.   We are coming up to a time where knowing the true 
intention behind the action will pave the way into exposing those 
who wish to enslave and obstruct us, vs. those who truly wish to 
evolve.  How many of these people were also correcting the errors of 
Galileo and the Greats of yesterday by forcing them to fit into 
whatever selfish constraints they wished to control?   So LM, what 
is your true intention behind your seemly loving approach to asking 
for a fair and balanced view on those victims?  You say you never 
said "all Muslims" yet you already implied it by suggesting that 
anyone who supports Hezbollah hates Jews.  Well, most of the world 
may not be terrorists but strangely now support Hezbollah more so 
than ever before and you want to know why this is so?  Firstly, 
Hezbollah are the Lebanese people defending their homes, their 
families, and their entire culture from being torn apart by 
aggressors who have NEVER LEFT southern Lebanon for decades and 
continue to occupy their homeland since then.  If you really think 
the kidnapped Israeli soldiers were standing on Israeli soil (and 
were kidnapped thus starting a war) then I got news for you.  They 
were not kidnapped in ISRAEL - but were in fact on Lebanese soil and 
were enemy combatants!   Hezbollah are supported by Christians, 
Sunni's and Shiites like never before.    

"My news, incidentally, comes directly from trusted observers of all 
nationalities and their reports from both sides of the borders. I 
was too well trained during WW2 in military intelligence, and later 
as a newspaper photo-journalist, not to recognize truth from 
propaganda. It appears that you are prepared to continually defend 
such spurious techniques of mass media disinformation and distortion 
of truth. Of course, that's nothing more than the modern adaptation 
of an old Dugpa occult trick of "implying the lie by telling the 
truth."  (Half truth, that is, in my book.) "
   
Absolute truth is not open to anything "half" whereas relative 
truths (or laws) can be true in one dimension but not in necessarily 
true in another.  But you have implied that these reports are 
using "Dugpa occult tricks".  LM, you assume too much and I should 
think that since Israel invaded Lebanon (not vice-versa) and since 
the amount of civilian casualties in Lebanon are 3000 times higher 
in Lebanon (which now stands in ruin) is enough to explain the 
rational of why most of the pictures and much of the reporting are 
of dead Lebanese and not Israeli's.  If you feel so strongly about 
not speaking half-truths and being fair and balanced, why don't you 
go and take that approach to Fox News and tell them to tell their 
bosses to stop sending weapons to Israel – including, tanks, plasma, 
nukes and billions of dollars per year?   Why don't you ask them why 
they cannot name one single Lebanese or Palestinian child 
slaughtered, yet they can name every single Israeli soldier!  But of 
course, you would never do this, as that would be seen as anti-
Semitic and un-patriotic – but may be they would offer you a 
position at Fox News?  Zionist controlled media love "isms' of all 
sorts.       

" I did not say that the links provided were not true, but only that 
they
are pure propaganda without showing the other side of the picture of 
Israeli
casualties due to Muslim terrorist attacks. Your claim that lebanon 
is "a
nation invaded by a known terrorist state" does not do justice to 
Israel by not
referring (in counterbalance) to the previous attacks, raids, and 
other
"invasions" of their homeland and civilians by known terrorist 
military
organizations acting from the cover of adjoining nations and 
protected from counter invasion by hiding behind civilians and the 
duped children of that nation."

Once again, instead you only seem interested in discrediting truth 
by implying that anything that's not making Israel out to be an 
equal victim is propaganda.  Sorry, but Israel is not an equal 
victim and the facts are facts.  You also mention "their (Israel) 
homeland" and how they have been attacked and you expect us to mourn 
for Israel when it was their own fault for murdering Christians, 
Muslims, Jews and others from the very first day they called 
themselves ISRAEL and set up base until this very day.  

I believe Rudolf Steiner mentioned how the Jewish people have always 
longed for Europe.  He also stressed that Israel as a nation will 
never survive in its present form – yes, he saw this in advance.  
Israel's leaders are terrorists (and I'm not in any way implying 
that all the people in Israel are terrorists) but Israel's people 
can hardly identify themselves with any Israelites which were many 
peoples.  For among those peoples were Galileans, Judeans, 
Samaritans and others. They spoke Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek.  
It is incorrect to label all of Israel as a home for Jewish people.  
The Essen's/Nazarenes were also Judeans, as the Essen's were Greco-
Israelites and they spoke Greek and Aramaic. The Essen's did not 
want to be separated from their Israelites brothers, thus they also 
accepted the cruel rule of the Sanhedrin.  Since I'm Christian…. how 
about I call myself ENTITLED to ISRAEL?   How about all Christians 
rise up and call upon themselves as the people of Nazarene blood and 
from the "Tribe of Joseph" and as being divinely connected 
to "BRITON", as the true people of the Covenant, thus ISRAEL belongs 
to Christians and not Jews?  Would this statement not sound very 
absurd to you, yet what do we hear the Israeli's teaching their 
children today?  I think you best take a closer look into what I am 
inferring here.     

"You also do not balance your propaganda claim -- that the so 
called "Neo
Zionists in London and Washington" (Who, specifically, are they?) 
are at fault
by also noting the previous attacks by Hezbollah and Hamas 
terrorists, who
actually are represented in or are the governments of the nations 
they attack
Israel from. Nor do you indicate that these initial invaders, and 
both past
and present attackers of Israeli civilians, are supported by Iran 
and Syria --
who also wish to exterminate the Jews and take over Israel so these 
Arab
countries don't have to support their brother Arabs, the so called 
Palestinian
refugees -- which they still keep in concentration camps."

Oh yes, let me remind you that MI5 created MOSSAD and please DO tell 
us what MOSAD stands for?  I'm sure it stands for love and peace and 
not deception, right?

 MOSSAD also funded HAMAS and installed them as the best enemies 
money can buy.  You also have a habit of intermixing HAMAS with 
HIZBOLLA.  HIZBOLLA was created as a resistance while HAMAS' history 
is slightly different.  Why not stay on topic with HIZBOLLA and stop 
mentioning HAMAS; or unless you prefer me to bring up the ADL, JDL 
and other terrorist organizations in my country which places laws 
(against my freedom of speech) calling it "hate laws" which prevent 
progress.  But since you asked "who", I'll tell you that the 
Rothschild's and Queen Elizabeth II are not dumb like Bush.  Now 
Cheney may be smarter than Bush but he is just another controlled 
pawn of the RIIA and thus British rules over both Israel and USA.  
However, I think (based on Zbigniew Brzezinski's comments) that this 
recent war plan is actually not so much the Elites plan, as it is 
the neo-Zionists plan in Washington.  In fact, Brzezinski calls 
them "Demagogy" and since he speaks on behalf of the Elites, I think 
the plan has been at least partially hijacked by neo-Zionist (Pearl 
and others) nutcases in the white house!     

"I guess they learned all their lessons (including the propaganda 
techniques
now parroted by certain Neo-Nazis we all know) ) from Hitler and his 
original
Nazi cronies. Heil Der Fuhrer, Adolph -- but give credit to 
Herman; "Hooray
for our side and damn the other" is the drill; And, "keep that 
always in
mind" is the order of the day. From my view, they are still the 
jokers that
Charley made them out to be, and to the world, they could be a 
deadly bunch if
they keep on backing and promoting the anti Jewish Arab terrorists 
and their own
sick anti Semitic philosophy. (Funny that most Arabs are Semites, 
isn't it?)"

Look closer and ye shall find out that the great deal of Nazi's were 
Zionists in disguise – the Jews being the first victims.  Cannot 
recall but I think it was Himmler who was teased as being a "Jew" 
when he was young?  And who funded Hitler before and after the war? 
Paul Warburg was one of them and he was a Zionist also.  I'll tell 
you it was not some dumb skin-heads or Islamists who funded 
Hitler!   But oh well, there are certain laws preventing deeper 
research into the matter – free-dumb of speech laws naturally!

"  However, Muslims cannot be blamed as a group, nor can the Jews. 
But, It's a
shame how the Islamic terrorists distort the Koran to justify their
blatant, and murderous anti-Semitism... While, It's an obvious fact 
that there
is no such generalized and deadly anti-Islamism among the Jews as a 
religious or
political group. Nor is there anything in their Bible that condones 
it."

Oh I see, you agree that Islamic extremists are a problem on one 
hand while on another you compare them with Bible Jews.  Am I to 
assume that you meant "Bible" as in "Torah" and if so, why leave out 
the TALMUDISTS who twist the Talmud and Bible just like the 
Pharisees and Scribes did in the past?  I mean these Islamic 
terrorists today actually seem to resemble very little of the older 
Ottoman Empire and they seem to be hated by the vast majority of the 
Muslim people anyhow. Besides the Muslims and Jews who accept Jesus 
as a Prophet or a teacher – or those who question his existence, 
there are also others who still go further and refer to Jesus as 
a "Son of a whore".  I wonder, which Holy book would teach this 
about a man so gentle and loving?  Could it be those evil Islamic 
terrorists teaching these things about Jesus?  So who made the 
biggest fuss over Mel Gibson's film, the terrorist Muslims?  

And what you call terrorists are in reality the freedom fighters of 
Lebanon – at least according to a vast majority of the world 
population – other than ISRAEL and USA.  Are the insane Talmudists 
of today much different then they were in the 1500's?  How about in 
the year 33 AD when they tricked the Romans into murdering Joshua 
Emmanuel the Christ?  Was Martin Luther also an Anti-Semite since 
Hitler agreed with much of what Luther wrote?  I'm just throwing out 
some basic ideas, so please don't misunderstand my intention for 
being rude.

 "(Incidentally, these Biblical restraints, notably in the ten 
commandments,
are what underlies the benevolent teachings of the Christ.)"

In early times it was an eye for an eye. This means a deal or a 
bargain for man to rule over man. Moses never brought the law; the 
Israelites merely misunderstood what Moses tried to teach them. Some 
understood the true teachings and they were the Israelite Essen's. 
Moses was an Egyptian Prince and Amun-Ra worship was still on-going 
at the time of Moses. Moses opposed the teachings of Amun-Ra. Yet, 
just as Jesus asked for Mercy and not sacrifice, how many people 
today will sacrifice another soul for their God Mammon or Jahve?  
The Essen's were not the same as the other Israelites and only they 
have been linked at times by culture and locality etc.  The 
Israelites were many people and among them were Galileans, Judeans, 
Samaritans and others.  They spoke Hebrew, Aramaic and some Greek.  
It is incorrect to label all the Essen's as only Judeans, as the 
Essen's were Greco-Israelites and they spoke Greek and Aramaic. But 
even still, the Essen's did not want to be separated from their 
Israelite brothers, thus they also accepted the cruel rule of the 
Sanhedrin  The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the life of the man named 
Yeshiva or Jesus was, apocalyptic and sectarian.  I brought up the 
Sanhedrin only to prove a point that the Essen's loved their fellow 
Israelites, even though the Israelites considered the Essen's 
heretics because they were nomadic, reserved and apocalyptic people. 
Your quoting the Old Testament means little unless you understand 
that Yeshiva was not living the life of what you are referring to as 
a "Jew"  The Essen's were like Monks in that they completely 
separated themselves from the rest of the community – in terms of 
faith particularly – they were far different.  

"He shall be called a Nazorean!" (Matthew 2:23)." 

There is a difference between a Nazarene and a typical Jew and how 
many of those Israeli soldiers (do you suppose) uphold even the very 
basic Mosaic laws?  How many Talmudists uphold these laws today and 
place them higher than their oral laws?  The Israelites were under 
the cruel rule of the Sanhedrin but the Essen's believed 
in "Jehovah" or the "El-Shaddai" and never accepted a cruel and 
vengeful God like "Jahve".  Moses never brought a cruel God to the 
Israelite Hebrew people.   He brought a loving God….. and they 
misunderstood!  They wrote laws for man – instead of allowing God to 
inscribe them directly into their hearts.  

The Essen's (who are the direct descendants of the Israelites 
Egyptians) remained in Egypt after Amenhotep IV brought Aton. They 
accepted the one spirit God of the Universe and called him "Aton-ai" 
and they awaited the birth of Joshua the Christ (Jesus) in 
Palestine. They denounced the false Gods of the many Egyptians and 
Romans. Amenhotep IV also denounced the false Gods of the Egyptians 
and he was murdered by the followers of Amun-Ra.  Now, today we 
still have the offshoots of the Essen's and the overgrowths of the 
Israelites. The Israelite off growths eventually integrated back 
into Europe – and thus the Jews long for Europe!!!   But even today, 
the Sanhedrin still follows the Talmudic laws (of separation) and 
it's no surprise they are now many of the elite ruling class.  

"So, who are we to lay the blame on for any of the problems we find 
the world
in today? Aren't we not all, as members (not the leaders) of any 
religious,
national, racial, or social group -- or of none of any one, but of 
all, as
true "theosophists" -- simply the victims of circumstances. and our 
own personal
and group karma, that are, and have always been (except for the 
karma of
knowledgeable theosophists), out of our individual control?"

Who are we to blame?  I love this question and my response is that 
those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  Let 
us take a look at what this means in application, for just as in 
ISRAEL:  

"And there shall be neither Ieudean, nor Gentile" 

The Israelites of yesterday were very hostile to one another and 
were eagerly awaiting the return of God to the earth!  They awaited 
a powerful king!  Do you think they may still be waiting today, not 
seeing the prince of peace come as they are still awaiting a 
powerful king, as opposed to a God of Mercy?  They accepted only one 
God, yet applied their cruel human vices to their God and those who 
lived under that God were to be ruled by a cruel and vengeful God. 
The "Jew" was often persecuted by their fellow "Jew".   The Romans 
actually considered the Jewish Mosaic laws to be barbarous and 
evil!   LM, did you know that many Israelites became Roman citizens 
to escape the cruelness of the Sanhedrin's foolish application of 
the Mosaic laws?  

Well I can tell you that the word "IS-RA-EL" derives directly from 
Egyptian culture which is of course no surprise being that the early 
Israelites were also Hebrews.  Now we do have many words today so 
the word ISRAEL in no way suggests they are of all Egyptian belief.  
However, this state of Israel was carved politically into the land 
of Palestine causing much upset and unrest not too long ago – as you 
very well know.  But is this only political and what purpose was 
Israel facilitating to a modern day Jew and why do Jews need a land 
of Israel to live in?  Could Israel represent the New Babylonian 
Empire as expected by many?  

In the Bible, Mathew 28:18-20 mentions that Israel was a spiritual 
message of God to come, so-to-speak. 

Could this creation of an Israel state further support the presence 
of an ancient Babylonian and Leviticus Priesthood Belief?  Are they 
trying to resurrect the Empire of the Cruel God "Jahve" who might 
rule on a thrown of gold and power?   LM, how have they done thus 
far and do you think it's only political?  It seems to me that 
ISRAEL cannot even survive without (originally) Britain and then the 
USA and tons of military support.  She also has much of the churches 
support, yet you speak harshly that Iran and other Islamic nations 
support Lebanon.  Well at least Lebanon (before the war) could stand 
on her own two feet without all the aid of superpowers.  

We saw the first instance of fractional reserve banking originating 
from the Babylon Talmudic practices. I believe Christ himself 
addressed this notion as being used as "a den of thieves and 
robbers" while in God's house and not much has changed today I'm 
afraid.