Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00370)

Carlos,

I'm not at al "sympathetic towards the LCC and "Theosophical" 
Masonry". I am very much critical. But facts, is facts. I don't 
defend them, but one must correct. 

But I want to clearly separate the traditional Co-Masonic works; 
from the leadbeaterian "masonry" (what you called "Theosophical" 
Masonry).

1) The connection between LCC and Adyar TS is not what it was. They 
are totally separated groups today, and the LCC are spitted up in 
several different groups. 
2) The link is to Algeo's homemade (illegal and irregular) Co-
Masonic order, and none of the real Co-Masons. They don't like CWL 
at al. 
3) And on Radha. I don't really know were she belongs or not (maybe 
in the (not so golden) "middle path"), but I think that Adyar TS 
can't go back in to the Theosophical "track", before she is gone. 

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
> 
> For someone who does not adheres to CWL, you are showing yourself 
as rather  sympathetic towards the LCC and "Theosophical" Masonry.  
I have no problem with that, but I try to see facts.  
> 
> The main point, in order not to have to discuss "real estate 
matters", is that:
> 
> 1) LCC and Masonry are exceedingly 'influential' over the Adyar 
TS, and they, especially Masonry, play the role of "occult division" 
to the wide detriment of the ES.   The ES is commited to the TS, not 
so Masonry, which is committed but to itself and to the 
Leadbeaterian/ritualistic  view of  things.  
> 
> 
> 2) The most active and agressive Leadbeaterian Adyar TS members, 
who have been  consistently spreading rumours  and slanders against 
HPB for many years, are almost all directly linked to the 
LCC/Masonry.  
> 
> 3) Although keeping a 'key role' in ritualisms,  Ms. Radha does 
not belong to this priestlike, aggressive  section of Adyar's 
neotheosophy.  She respects HPB although she can't stop the 
ritualists from cowardly attacking Theosophy and HPB's work.
> 
> Commentaries? 
> 
> 
> Regards,   Carlos. 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 02:51:15 -0000
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World Re: To Konstantin on CWL & Adyar Masonry
> 
> > Carlos wrote: "LCC and co-masonry do not have their own 
buildings, 
> > or ways to 'get' new people
> > outside the TS. They have to use the TS buildings, and they 
> > generally 'feed'
> > or vampirize the Adyar TS in many ways, besides being a powerful 
> > influence,
> > though disguised, over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade 
to 
> > get
> > neophites -- and they take people away from the ES, too, since 
they 
> > offer
> > "occult status" to people, and the ES has "much less 
possibilities" 
> > in that
> > department of Vanity."
> > 
> > That is not true! Maybe it is like that in Brazil, but I know 
for 
> > sure, and it is easy to prove, that that not is the case in 
Europe 
> > and Australia. The LCC and TS Adyar are totally separated. In 
some 
> > place, they are connected hence same people belongs to both 
> > organisations (like in Sydney), but far from every were. In 
Europe 
> > the LCC today in most places has their own church buildings, and 
a 
> > majority of the present LCC-bishops are not members of TS Adyar. 
In 
> > Scandinavia and Germany today, only one bishop of five is a 
member 
> > of TS Adyar. Here in Melbourne is only one active TS-Adyar 
member 
> > (of ca 300) also member of the LCC, but she has not been active 
in 
> > LCC for years. In Victoria are five LCC-priest (in different 
> > churches), and none of them are members of TS Adyar. One of them 
has 
> > been, but isn't that any longer.
> > 
> > There is only one "division" within Co-masonry (one Grand Lodge 
in 
> > the US, and one in the UK) that are connected with TS Adyar, 
hence 
> > they are working after Leadbeater's version of A.A.S.R. The 
other Co-
> > Masonic orders are not, and don't want to.
> > 
> > Carl 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Konstantin,
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the info and clarifications. 
> > > 
> > > By the end of your helpful message, you say: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to 
theosophize 
> > > masonry, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy."
> > > 
> > > Not at all, Konstantin. I have seen that in Brazil, in Adyar, 
in 
> > the USA -- and have definite news about that from other 
countries, 
> > as the UK, Netherlands, Australia, and so on. You can check it 
> > yourself. 
> > > 
> > > LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, or ways 
> > to 'get' new people outside the TS. They have to use the TS 
> > buildings, and they generally 'feed' or vampirize the Adyar TS 
in 
> > many ways, besides being a powerful influence, though disguised, 
> > over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to get neophites --
 
> > and they take people away from the ES, too, since they 
offer "occult 
> > status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" in 
that 
> > department of Vanity. 
> > > 
> > > It has been so that TS leaders, national and 
international, "have" 
> > to be masons. A 'political need' to get to power. But masons 'do 
> > not have' to be fellows of the Adyar TS. 
> > > 
> > > And this structure was created by Leadbeater, mainly to defend 
> > himself from the short term karmic consequences of his 
> > pedophile 'love for boys' , id est, scandals. (Pedophile 
practices 
> > are crimes, as you know.) 
> > > 
> > > After Leabeater was rightfully expelled by Henry Olcott from 
the 
> > Adyar TS due to his repeated abuse of children, he had to wait 
less 
> > than a year for the death of Olcott -- and then he came back 
using 
> > various rituals as 'hidden political shields' against the 
> > consequences of his criminal actions. 
> > > 
> > > Then the 'esoteric popery' (as foreseen in the '1900 letter') 
was 
> > created.
> > > 
> > > By the way: the '1900 letter' was received by A. Besant 
exactly 
> > seven years before 1907, when Leadbeater came back and started 
> > creating "theosophical" rituals. Seven years. A cycle. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards, Carlos. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Cópia:
> > > 
> > > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:53:08 -0000
> > > 
> > > Assunto:Theos-World Re: Konstantin and Russia
> > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I would like to ask you a clarification about the meaning 
of 
> > your 
> > > > sentences below:
> > > > 
> > > > "I think it will don't work, because at least certain 
leaders 
> > violate 
> > > > principles expressed by Leadbeater in no lesser degree than 
> > principles 
> > > > expressed by Blavatsky."
> > > > 
> > > > I mean that those who impose worship and control obviously 
> > follow some 
> > > > their own principles, not the ideas of Leadbeater. They may 
use 
> > some 
> > > > his ideas for their purposes but disconnecting them from the 
> > context, 
> > > > it's exactly like some church leaders use some ideas from 
the 
> > Gospel 
> > > > for their selfish ends.
> > > > 
> > > > Below are some quotations from CWL. Probably they are not 
the 
> > best, as 
> > > > these are the first I could find, nevertheless they reflect 
> > clearly 
> > > > his views on the authority of the theosophical leaders and 
> > freedom of 
> > > > thought:
> > > > 
> > > > "I always said, "Don't believe anything just because I tell 
you,
> > > > because I am liable to make mistakes just as any human being
> > > > can." ...
> > > > That is only my personal testimony in the matter, and I 
should
> > > > not wish that any human being should base his convictions on
> > > > that. He may take it; if he will, as evidence, but it is not
> > > > proof; and he must remember that...
> > > > 
> > > > "The attainment of mental freedom was a necessary step in 
the 
> > process 
> > > > of human evolution"
> > > > 
> > > > "It therefore becomes the duty of every student of occultism 
to
> > > > examine carefully the religious belief of his country and his
> > > > period, in order that he may decide for himself what of it is
> > > > based upon reason and what is merely a superstitious 
accretion.
> > > > Most men never make any such effort..."
> > > > 
> > > > Can we say that those leaders who are accused 
> > in "leadbeaterianism" 
> > > > follow these principles?
> > > > 
> > > > > Are the LCC or the 'Theosophical Masonry' active there?
> > > > 
> > > > None of them.
> > > > After all, rites play their role. Once a young man who 
formerly 
> > was a 
> > > > Satanist, came to our meetins. He disappointed in the 
Satanism, 
> > but 
> > > > our talks didn't satisfy him. It happened so that I gave a 
talk 
> > about 
> > > > freemasonry. He became deeply interested in it, and wanted 
to 
> > join the 
> > > > freemasons, where he was redirected to. I don't know whether 
he 
> > was 
> > > > accepted, as I am not a freemason myself; yet I think it 
would 
> > be 
> > > > better to direct him to the co-masonic lodge where masonry 
is 
> > > > connected with a bit of theosophy, but unfortunately we have 
no 
> > such 
> > > > lodges in Russia.
> > > > 
> > > > I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to 
theosophize 
> > > > masonery, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente 
Terra.
> > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > > > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?
> > 
+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1162655883.276193.11551.balcomo.hst.terra.com.
> > br,5855,Des15,Des15
> > > > 
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> > > 
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> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
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