HPB AND ALL RELIGIONS
Nov 14, 2006 09:24 AM
by carlosaveline
Theo,
Thanks.
One hears lots of things these days.
So, hearing that HPB was anti-semite, or that CWL visited Mercury personally and talked to the Lord Christ every day, is all very common stuff, in't it?
But -- can you tell us why "The Hebrew Talisman" pamphlet proves HPB was anti-semite?
One last question: if she was, why did she dedicate so much positive attention to the Kaballah? She studied Kaballah a lot! Was she a Jewish too?
Of course, the did not criticize only Christianity. She criticized Hinduism, Islamism, Judaism and so on, and radically so. She questioned every conventional religion -- and most Sciences as well.
But that does not make her an Anti-Christianism, or an Anti-Hinduism, Ainti-Islamism and so on.
That only makes her be attacked by many people from diverse sectors....
Best regards, Carlos.
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Cópia:
Data:Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:24:55 +0100
Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Re: CWL The revenge from Perfume of Egypt.
> As I have two copies of the 1912 edition of The Perfume of Egypt (which is not rare at all,
> reprint copies of this
> 1912 edition were for years for cheap prices avialable at Health Research Molukeleme Hill.
> Secondhand ) I am
> going to check those statements.
>
> As to antisemitism and racism, I read in James Webb that Blavatsky was antisemitic,
> defending the pogroms in
> Russia, and that "The Hebrew Talisman" pamphlet proves all this. Also, wasn't Juliana Glinka
> a theosophist?
>
> regards,
>
> Theo
>
> ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> Van: christinaleestemaker
> Datum: dinsdag, november 14, 2006 2:53 pm
> Onderwerp: Theos-World Re: CWL The revenge from Perfume of Egypt.
>
> > Also Leadbeater could not kill the killer of his brother Gerald
> > look
> > at page 262.
> >
> > Christina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I have the same book and I stay saying Leadbeater have nothing to
> > do
> > > with racism and all things said about him.
> > > That you see that different, say something about you.
> > > Christina.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Christina,
> > > >
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > As my written references say, I am working with the
> > > India/Adyar/TPH 1978 edition of "The Perfume".
> > > >
> > > > It is all there, the rascism, the contempt for black people,
> > for
> > > indigenous people, the lack of basic information about the
> > profound
> > > ethnic mixing which is the main characteristic in Brazil and in a
> > > great part of Latin America...
> > > >
> > > > The pride in killing people with firearms...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Cópia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:56:38 -0000
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: CWL AGAINST BLACK/INDIGENOUS
> > PEOPLES
> > > >
> > > > > -I have no quest book , but the original from TPH Adyar
> > > > > Other question:
> > > > > If we read the conqueror stories of that Red Indians,Spains
> > and
> > > so
> > > > > on who conquered South America,are they good civilized people?
> > > > > Also the whites are not always, the only thing I can say
> > > Leadbeater
> > > > > better could not write is that the blank is the superior race.
> > > > > That is not at all.
> > > > > Christina
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "'Cuervo'" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carlos - Christina et al -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The publishing policy at Quest Books initiated by Helen
> > Zahara
> > > > > when
> > > > > > she came around 1970 was to edit out all negative racial
> > and
> > > > > ethnic
> > > > > > comments, especially in the writings of Leadbeater, though
> > I
> > > think
> > > > > > also in Jinarajadasa's introductory book on Theosophy.
> > There
> > > are
> > > > > > examples in most of CWL's writings, but it is difficult to
> > > find
> > > > > the
> > > > > > originals of some to compare with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ken
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Christina,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please look at the pages 167 and 168 of your "The Perfume
> > of
> > > > > > Egypt", TPH 1978 edition, and you will find these
> > quotations
> > > which
> > > > > I
> > > > > > comment below:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ooooooooo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Leadbeater says about "red indians":
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid
> > > > > civilization,
> > > > > > but many others were still savages untamed and untamable ?
> > men
> > > who
> > > > > > regarded work of any kind as the deepest degradation ? who
> > > hated
> > > > > the
> > > > > > white man with a traditional, unrelenting hatred, and
> > (strange
> > > as
> > > > > it
> > > > > > may seen) more than reciprocated the boundless contempt of
> > the
> > > > > blue-
> > > > > > blooded hidalgo of Spain. It will be no doubt
> > incomprehensible
> > > to
> > > > > > many of us that a half-naked savage can entertain any other
> > > > > feeling
> > > > > > than envy for our superior civilization, however much he
> > may
> > > > > dislike
> > > > > > us; but I can only say that the quite genuine and
> > unaffected
> > > > > feeling
> > > > > > of the Red Indian towards the white man is pure and
> > > unmitigated
> > > > > > contempt."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly view
> > of
> > > > > human
> > > > > > beings:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion of
> > the
> > > > > > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the
> > > > > > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse
> > > from
> > > > > its
> > > > > > territories; and last and worst came what were called the
> > half-
> > > > > > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed
> > > races
> > > > > > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both
> > its
> > > > > parent
> > > > > > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them;
> > and
> > > > > they
> > > > > > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer elements'
> > for
> > > the
> > > > > > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for
> > > the
> > > > > mass-
> > > > > > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the half-
> > > breeds
> > > > > > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine
> > > all
> > > > > the
> > > > > > worst qualities of both its parent stocks."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is Leadbeater.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brazil has been from the very beginning a miscigenation
> > > people
> > > > > and
> > > > > > indigenous people here never present resintence or hated
> > the
> > > white
> > > > > > people. Their culture was too primitive for that, say. We
> > have
> > > > > never
> > > > > > had important racial tensions or hatred in Brazil, aas
> > such,
> > > > > though
> > > > > > there was social violence.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Miscigenation is part of the preparation for the next sub-
> > > race,
> > > > > as
> > > > > > HPB writes in the "Secret Doctrine".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Para:"theos-talk" theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cópia:"carlosaveline" carlosaveline@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:00:40 -0300
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World CWL AGAINST BLACK AND
> > INDIGENOUS
> > > > > PEOPLES
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear Friends,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is about Bishop Leadbeater and his imaginary
> > > adventures
> > > > > in
> > > > > > South America.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > C. Jinarajadasa believed he was there with Leadbeater
> > in
> > a
> > > > > > previous body, and that he was his biological younger
> > brother,
> > > who
> > > > > > was allegedly killed and 'rediscovered' by CWL in Ceylon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In fact, in a footnote to his autobiographical Postface
> > in
> > > the
> > > > > > book "The Seven Veils of Consciousness", C. Jinarajadasa
> > > states
> > > > > that
> > > > > > that the true story of his own "previous (and glorious)
> > death
> > > in
> > > > > > Brazil" is narrated in the chapter "Saved by a Ghost", of
> > the
> > > > > > book "The Perfume of Egypt" (2).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > C.J. believed everything CWL said, and he also writes
> > in
> > > the
> > > > > > note that the same old silver crucifix which is mentioned
> > in
> > > that
> > > > > > story was in his possession, as he wrote "The Seven Veils
> > of
> > > > > > Consciousness".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As to Leadbeater, in the preface of his 'The Perfume of
> > > > > Egypt",
> > > > > > he makes a solemn statement:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The stories in this book happen to be true."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Along "Saved By a Ghost", the longest story of the
> > volume,
> > > > > > Leadbeater proudly describes how he killed numerous black
> > > people
> > > > > and
> > > > > > indigenous people in South America during his youth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of course, common sense says that the story is as
> > illusory
> > > as
> > > > > > the visits Leabeater made to physical plane civilizations
> > in
> > > Mars
> > > > > > and Mercury.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But even if it were presented as a `short novel' pure
> > and
> > > > > > simple, and not as an autobiographical narration, the
> > content
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > text reveals too much of racism and disrespect against
> > black
> > > > > people,
> > > > > > indigenous people and their right to live. Leadbeater also
> > > uses
> > > > > the
> > > > > > term "race" not in its theosophical meaning, but in the
> > > > > > nationalistic way, as if each country had its own 'race',
> > > > > > anticipating what Adolf Hitler would do decades later.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At p. 167 of the Adyar edition, one starts to read his
> > > > > > description of Brazilian people:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "First came the descendants of Spanish and Portuguese
> > > > > > conquerors ? a haughty, indolent race; a race courtly and
> > > > > > hospitable, by no means without its good qualities, but yet
> > > one
> > > > > > whose strongest characteristic was an immeasurable contempt
> > > (or
> > > > > the
> > > > > > affectation of it) for all other races whatsoever".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The amount of illusions-per-line is outstanding here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First, Spanish people were never `conquerors' in
> > Brazil.
> > > The
> > > > > > country was `discovered' and made a colony by Portugal.
> > > Second,
> > > > > > Portuguese people are not a race; and they cannot be easily
> > > > > > described as `indolent'. Third, Portuguese people generaly
> > did
> > > not
> > > > > > show `contempt' for other `races', and it is for this
> > reason
> > > that
> > > > > > miscigenation ? intermarriage ? was from the first the main
> > > > > > anthropological characteristic of the emerging Brazilian
> > > nation.
> > > > > > Portuguese people easily created strong personal links with
> > > black
> > > > > > people and indigenous people. (Of course, colonization was
> > > also
> > > > > > violent.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the next paragraph, "bishop" Leadbeater is even more
> > > > > > surprising:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Next came red indians".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, there are no `red indians' in Brazil, although
> > the
> > > term
> > > > > is
> > > > > > very common in old North American Far West bang-bang
> > stories,
> > > in
> > > > > > which hundreds of "bad" Indians get typically killed by a
> > few
> > > > > white
> > > > > > men usually presented as brave heros.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Leadbeater says about "red indians":
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid
> > > > > > civilization, but many others were still savages untamed
> > and
> > > > > > untamable ? men who regarded work of any kind as the
> > deepest
> > > > > > degradation ? who hated the white man with a traditional,
> > > > > > unrelenting hatred, and (strange as it may seen) more than
> > > > > > reciprocated the boundless contempt of the blue-blooded
> > > hidalgo of
> > > > > > Spain. It will be no doubt incomprehensible to many of us
> > that
> > > a
> > > > > > half-naked savage can entertain any other feeling than envy
> > > for
> > > > > our
> > > > > > superior civilization, however much he may dislike us; but
> > I
> > > can
> > > > > > only say that the quite genuine and unaffected feeling of
> > the
> > > Red
> > > > > > Indian towards the white man is pure and unmitigated
> > > contempt."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are the problems in these few lines? First, again
> > > comes
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Spanish `hidalgo' (nobleman) apparently ruling Brazil, a
> > > country
> > > > > > which was independent from Portugal (not Spain), since
> > 1822,
> > > and
> > > > > was
> > > > > > never under any "Spanish' ruling class. Second, the `red
> > > Indian'
> > > > > > again. Third, indigenous people and did not express hate
> > > against
> > > > > > white people, and never actively resisted the domination of
> > > > > European
> > > > > > rulers in Brazil. These two paragraphs simply can't refer
> > to
> > > any
> > > > > > South American country.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly
> > view
> > > of
> > > > > > human beings:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion
> > of
> > > the
> > > > > > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the
> > > > > > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse
> > > from
> > > > > its
> > > > > > territories; and last and worst came what were called the
> > half-
> > > > > > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed
> > > races
> > > > > > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both
> > its
> > > > > parent
> > > > > > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them;
> > and
> > > > > they
> > > > > > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer
> > elements'
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for
> > > the
> > > > > mass-
> > > > > > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the
> > half-
> > > > > breeds
> > > > > > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine
> > > all
> > > > > the
> > > > > > worst qualities of both its parent stocks."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is Leadbeater.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But -- what about Theosophy? What does esoteric
> > philosophy
> > > > > > really say about the relations between rich and poor
> > nations
> > > and
> > > > > > among all different ethnical groups, with their varied
> > kinds
> > > of
> > > > > > colours in the skin? In the "Letters from the Masters", the
> > > famous
> > > > > > letter known as coming from the "Great Master" says:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "To achieve the proposed object, a greater, a wiser,
> > and
> > > > > > especially a more benevolent intermingling of the high and
> > the
> > > > > low,
> > > > > > of the Alpha and the Omega of Society, was determined upon.
> > > The
> > > > > > white race must be the first to stretch out the hand of
> > > fellowship
> > > > > > to the dark nations, to call the poor despised `nigger'
> > > brother.
> > > > > > This prospect may not smile to all, but he is no
> > Theosophist
> > > who
> > > > > > objects to his principle" (2)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One can only conclude, then, that in writing that
> > > paragraph
> > > > > > Leadbeater was "no theosophist".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In fact, Leadbeater's vision of human beings as
> > presented
> > > in
> > > > > > that long story is not only ethically and culturally
> > > unacceptable.
> > > > > > It is also legally criminal, for racism and stimulation of
> > > hatred
> > > > > > among people of different skin-colours has been defined as
> > > crime
> > > > > in
> > > > > > Brazil a few years ago.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One can understand why the Brazilian edition of "Saved
> > By
> > > a
> > > > > > Ghost" cannot be found in Brazilian bookshops any longer.
> > Yet
> > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > still for sale at Adyar, it seems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ( In another posting, I should refer to Leadbeater's
> > > proudly
> > > > > > alleged acts of violence leading to death, which, even if
> > seen
> > > as
> > > > > > fictional, are profoundly untheosophical. )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > NOTE:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (1) "The Perfume of Egypt", by C. W. Leadbeater, whose
> > > sixth
> > > > > > edition (TPH Adyar, 265 pp.) is dated 1978.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (2) "Letters From the Masters of the Wisdom", compiled
> > by
> > > C.
> > > > > > Jinarajadasa, Adyar TPH, first series, Letter number one,
> > > known
> > > > > > as `the Maha-Chohan Letter' or "the Great Master Letter'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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