Theos-Talk Archives (December 2006 Message tt00652)

Carlos,

This have nothing too do how easily available in Masonic books are 
in bookshops Brazil or else where. And still: What ever you may 
happen too write, right or wrong on Masonry ("provoked" too do so by 
me or anyone else), I'll never break my vows. The real Secrets of 
Freemasonry is not its the rituals or the vows, or anything like 
that. 

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Carl,
> 
> You ask: 
> 
> Do you know what HPB was referring too? Have you ever read any of 
> Ragon's books and calendars? Do you know what Ragon's work was al 
> about, and what was him mission and reason for doing it? Do you 
know 
> who al all who Ragon was? Do you know the differences 
> between "symbolic Masonry" and "operative Masonry"? Do you know 
> anything, at all, about the Secrets of Freemasonry?" 
> 
> 
> It seems you challenge me to "prove" that I know the "secrets" of 
Masonry. 
> 
> I claim nothing my brother  but, do those questions  mean you want 
to discuss 
> the "secrets" of Masonry in Theos-talk? 
> 
> Do you think I am writing here, or will in the future, write all I 
know about things? 
> 
> I can discuss here things public or nearly public. 
> 
> Yet since several of Ragon's books on lodges activities are easily 
available in 
> bookshops at least in Brazil (and books by other masonic authors 
too),  I will 
> tell you one thing which is, in a way, public: that many, or most, 
masonic vows
>  include disciplinary or karmic measures aquivalent to 
that "clause of 
> self-exclusion" and "clause of exclusion" which I have discussed 
in my 
> message below, and which Judas fulfills  in the New Testament, 
hanging 
> himself after his treason against his Master.  
> 
> What exactly  is that masonic equivalent  of self-exclusion in 
each one 
> of the different cases?  I will leave that -- and the coresponding 
leaking 
> activity --  for you to tell us if you can afford that. 
> 
> 
> But take a look below, to, since the substance of my posting on 
the 
> "Primal Vow"  is public and bibliographically well documented. 
> 
> You have the floor,  and take care lest you feel something in 
that  part 
> of human body which goes between the head and the chest, if you 
know
> what I mean with this symbolism.   I will stop at that most simple 
thing
> for now.  
> 
> May Karma work well and may you be in peace with your own higher 
self,  
> 
> 
> Carlos. 
> 
> 
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> This is about the "Primal Vow" in Pure Land or Shin Buddhism, and 
on its exclusion clause.
> 
> One of the two primary scriptures of Shin Buddhism is called 
the "Larger Sukhavati-vyuha". Author Taitetsu Unno
> writes:
> 
> "It describes the career of a bodhisatva, a potential Buddha-to-
be, by the name of Dharmakara, who makes
> forty-eight vows before another Buddha (...)." (1)
> 
> According to Unno, the most important among these pledges is the 
Eigthtenth Vow, better known as the Primal
> Vow. It is a vow of sacrifice for all beings.
> 
> It says:
> 
> "If, when I attain Buddhahood, the sentient beings of the ten 
quarters, with sincere mind, entrusting
> themselves, aspiring to be born in my land, and saying my Name 
perhaps even ten times, should not be born
> there, may I not attain the supreme enlightenment. Excluded are 
those who commit the five grave offenses and
> those who slander the dharma." (2)
> 
> Some students could say the last sentence in this vow is 
judgemental. Yet, it is not. From a theosophical
> viewpoint, such an `exclusion clause' does not actually provoke 
the exclusion of anyone at the occult level. It
> only acknowledges and accepts the fact of an exclusion which has 
taken place already, and of free will.
> 
> Those who slander the teachers, or harm the Teachings, decide to 
exclude themselves from a certain magnetic
> field. It occurs at the inner and subtle level. It is an action at 
the occult, or non-visible dimensions of
> life. Therefore the exclusion clause is not a motor-cause in 
itself for exclusion or separation, and much less
> a punishment. It is a consequence. It is but a decision not to 
pretend that a broken vessel is still intact.
> And, of course, it is done in abstrat, at the level of 
philosophical principles. Accepting unpleasant facts is
> useful because if one does know that something is broken, then one 
can fix it ; whereas if one pretends it is
> still intact, one lives in denial and self-delusion.
> 
> In a smaller scale, it has also to do with our everyday lives. By 
each one of their small daily actions,
> students help ( or hinder ) their own gradual inclusion in the 
higher and inner levels of the so-called "three
> refuges", which are:
> 
> 1) The Dharma (or the Law and Teachings);
> 2) The Buddha (or the teachers) and,
> 3) The Sangha (or the community of students).
> 
> There are a few useful lessons we can take from that concept of 
self-inclusion / self-exclusion. One of them is
> that we are responsible for our future destiny. We can observe our 
daily actions and see whether they are
> excluding us from, or including us within the wider spirit of the 
Teaching, in the atmosphere of the teachers
> and in the subtle community of earnest students.
> 
> We can see, then, up to what extent our daily actions tend to help 
our access to the higher realms of reality
> where our true selves live after all. Thus we can discover better 
means to enhance our learning process.
> 
> Best regards, Carlos.
> 
> NOTES:
> 
> (1) "Shin Buddhism", Taitetsu Unno, Doubleday/Random House, New 
York, 2002, 266 pp., see p. 03.
> 
> (2) "Shin Buddhism", Taitetsu Unno, Doubleday/Random House, see p. 
50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Cabeçalho original -----------
> 
> De: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Cópia: 
> Data: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:12:01 -0000
> Assunto: Theos-World Re: HPB: "Nothing With Masonry"
> 
> > Carlos,
> > Do you know what HPB was referring too? Have you ever read any 
of 
> > Ragon's books and calendars? Do you know what Ragon's work was 
al 
> > about, and what was him mission and reason for doing it? Do you 
know 
> > who al all who Ragon was? Do you know the differences 
> > between "symbolic Masonry" and "operative Masonry"? Do you know 
> > anything, at all, about the Secrets of Freemasonry? 
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > <carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Friends, 
> > >  
> > >  
> > > HPB explained in no half-words  that disciples of the Masters 
have 
> > nothing to do with modern masonic organizations.  
> > >  
> > > She wrote in 1889 for `La  Revue Théosophique', in Paris:  
> > >  
> > > "As far as we  are concerned,  disciples of the Masters of the 
> > Orient as we are, we have nothing to do with modern Masonry.  
The 
> > real secrets of symbolic Masonry are lost, as Ragon, by the way, 
> > proves very well. The keystone, the central stone of the arch 
built 
> > by the royal dynasties of Initiates  – ten times prehistoric – 
has 
> > been shaken loose since the close of the lastest mysteries.  The 
> > task of destruction,  or  rather of strangulation  and 
suffocation 
> > begun by the Caesars, has finally been completed, in Europe, by 
the 
> > Fathers of the Church. Imported again, since those days, from 
the 
> > sanctuaries of the Far East, the sacred stone was cracked and 
> > finally broken into a thousand pieces." (1) 
> > >  
> > > So HPB says most clearly that "disciples of the Masters of the 
> > Orient" indeed "have nothing to do with modern Masonry".   
> > >  
> > > And the other way around, of course. 
> > >  
> > >  
> > > But this is in the occult and strict sense. 
> > >  
> > > Although having nothing to do with ritualism, HPB and the 
> > theosophists had  friendly relations with some of the members of 
the 
> > Masonry. 
> > >  
> > > Regards,   Carlos. 
> > >   
> > >  
> > > NOTE: 
> > >  
> > > (1) "A Danger Signal", a text published in the "HPB Collected 
> > Writings", TPH, India/USA, 1973, volume XI, p. 181. 
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > O o o O o o O o o O 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> >
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