Theos-Talk Archives (February 2007 Message tt00304)

Nigel, for me the most difficult thing about sifting about for Truth is to remain detached from my own brain! I am easily led, that is why I find so many writings of Leadbeater appealing, especially his "At The Feet of The Master." Could it be that Leadbeater was a chela? And could that be why his writings are so diverse and almost seem to have been brought about with alter-personalities? I understand that chelaship is truly difficult and that the worst that is in us is often brought out for the world to examine. I think the reason that is so is that people who are "spiritual" often do not want to see their own sins....and therefore commit them for the world to view?
 
Well, again, I don't know. The reason I joined the Adyar Society is because they had a picture hanging in the hall of a woman that looked very much like my grandmother. When I read the caption I discovered that her name was Helena Petrovna Blavatsky! I originally visited the Quest Book Shop in search of more new age books. The clerk there asked me if I had ever visited Headquarters building and suggested I visit the library. Her very timely suggestion was well taken, because I had been spending a large sum on books, believe me. So after seeing the picture of Helena, I entered the library and the rest is history in the making in my life.
 
So, in my search for truth, I probably do what our forum mate Daniel does. I read and think for myself. And I hugely appreciate this forum because of the many different points of view on so many topics. And I have learned so much more here that I ever did sitting in the lectures and in my study groups. And may I say now, I hope that our friend Carlos is alive and well. I miss his knowledgeable contributions.
 
Marie
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: CW Leadbeater website


Dear Marie
Thank you too for your response, based obviously in experience and 
not mere speculation. I likewise agree with much of what you write. 

My statements concerning Bishop Leadbeater's lies and deceit however 
are not referring to his supposedly psychic pronouncements although 
many of these were demonstrably wild and fanciful as you allude. As 
we know, psychic visions are notoriously unreliable whose 
interpretation is largely subject to the worldview and mindset of the 
investigator. 
Bishop Leadbeater's worldview was very much Victorian English where 
position and status were synonymous with power and prestige and 
therefore prized possessions, hence the repeated lies and deceptions 
as to his background and upbringing. 

His mindset was also of a kind, one which valued authority, 
superiority, control, obedience and compliance. These qualities of 
temperament usually have their roots in fear which produces a fertile 
ground for blind belief and devotional following with commensurate 
reliance on external power and authority, more particularly in his 
case of the religious kind.
An interesting irony is that Dr Annie Besant, a previously staunch 
supporter of free thinking also eventually succumbed to this 
insidiously authoritarian mindset, where power and not truth 
sometimes became the priority.

>From my current perspective, this style of mindset is distinctly 
different and indeed anathema to that implicit and explicit in the 
Theosophy of Madame Blavatsky. As a single example, whilst she used 
literally thousands of references throughout her works embracing a 
vast vision of the ageless wisdom, Bishop Leadbeater used 
comparatively few, relying mostly on his own perceived authority. 
Whilst the occult concepts reintroduced by Madame Blavatsky were 
attempting to massively expand our minds out of their traditionally 
simplistic and compliant state, Bishop Leadbeater effectively 
misrepresented these and moreover produced a reduced version, much of 
which at the level of romantic, religious simplicity. 
Whilst Madame Blavatsky railed against the disempowering activities 
of the Christian religious institutions, Bishop Leadbeater helped 
form his own pseudo theosophical Christian church complete with male 
hierarchy and superiority.

The crucial questions to me are whether much of the worldview and 
mindset of Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant can be relied upon to 
state the truth or indeed to elicit freedom which might lead to truth 
and, if not, should they be supported and promoted? 

According to some in this forum, this is not an issue. According to 
them, they are dead, it all happened a long time ago, so it doesn't 
matter. 
Yes they are dead and long gone however most of their writings are 
not and are not only currently available and published but are highly 
recommended by many in the Adyar Society.

Marie, I particularly appreciated your statement "I don't know" when 
referring to whether your membership condones the "Leadbeater and 
Besant debacle". 
My journey through this dilemma was long and arduous over a number of 
years with many subtleties and nuances arising from lengthy 
discussions with numerous committed members. In my experience, most 
of the members of the Adyar Society were normal, everyday people with 
inquiring minds and respectful attitudes. Those in positions of 
responsibility however were often quite different.
The argument recently posted here that many people have arrived at 
Theosophy through the theosophy of Bishop Leadbeater has not been my 
experience in the Adyar Society. 
Most people came seeking simple answers to the radically complex 
propositions of life. Bishop Leadbeater offers these putative 
representations through his aforementioned methodology. 
As mentioned in a previous posting, during my time within the 
organisation, of the approximately ten percent of Adyar Society 
members who had any interest in theosophy only five percent of those 
showed interest in Madame Blavatsky's work. Ninety five percent 
remained satisfied with the works of Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant 
and many would argue defensively in their favour and often act 
politically when exposed to the innumerable contradictions and 
deceptions. The argument for simplification became the mantra for 
personal comfort and the genuine and ongoing search for truth mostly 
became lost in the maelstrom.

Marie, my decision not to support the Adyar Society as a member at 
the present time was not taken lightly as you might imagine. There 
are many good and well-intentioned members, many of whom work 
honourably, tirelessly and compassionately to "alleviate suffering".
Unfortunately the Freedom of Thought statement was interpreted by 
most in positions of significant responsibility as liberty to 
actively support and promote thoroughly discredited theosophical 
writings and writers. 
This I could no longer countenance

And herein perhaps lies our broader dilemma as a human race. 
Too often we surrender our freedom and independence of thought to 
leaders for such reasons as fear, insecurity, feelings of inferiority 
and a programmed mindset of reliance on external power and authority 
for our safety and security. However untruthful and deceptive these 
leaders may be, nonetheless we so often mindlessly, powerlessly and 
obediently defer to their authority.

Until we begin to truly think for ourselves and actively support and 
encourage others so to do, our minds will remain the puppets of power 
brokers who well understand the tendencies of human nature and whose 
ethic is so often based in power, not wisdom.

As budding Theosophists, perhaps we have a greater responsibility 
than most to support the ideal of Truth, in all its forms, in 
whichever way we can, for the sake of all.

Kind regards
Nigel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MarieMAJ41@... wrote:
>
> Thank you Nigel. I want to tell you that I agree almost completely 
with your assessment and reasoning. However, I cannot know whether or 
not he lied deliberately, or misinterpreted his visions into the 
astral world. It is entirely conceivable that being a fairly naive 
and impressionable person, as I perceive people who become clergy to 
be, Leadbeater had an entirely different world-view than most of us. 
I say all this with tongue in cheek however, because most of what 
Leadbeater has written about life on Mars and such is simply "poppy-
cock". And the past lives, LOL. But some of his books are even 
inspiring? 
> 
> I do think that Leadbeater was a pedophile. But he may not have 
known it. The Adyar Society is a little like Leadbeater [and his 
cohort Annie Besant] in fact. Ambitious people are at the head of it, 
and only ambitious people will ever be in charge They will do what 
they must to stay in power and lead the sheeple. But that is not to 
say that those same people have not done good for the spreading of 
theosophy. I think they count on the fact that many, if not most, 
people who join the Society will never find out about the various 
controversies and the different splinter groups that have arisen. 
When I joined the Adyar Society, it was because it was there, I had 
not way of knowing that there were choices, and I was never informed 
about any choices. So I became a Life-Member. So, am I through my 
membership condoning the Leadbeater and Besant debacle? I don't 
know. And at this point, since Blavatsky, Judge, Olcott, Leadbeater 
and Besant have gone to their reward, I don't care. I will just have 
to make do with the literature and my own intuitions.
> 
> Marie
> 
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nhcareyta@...
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 7:40 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: CW Leadbeater website
> 
> 
> Dear Marie
> Thank you for alerting us to this website. It is a worthwhile 
> contribution to an interesting debate.
> 
> On this site, Pedro takes what appears to be at first glance a 
> reasoned approach to some of the issues surrounding Bishop 
> Leadbeater. For the uninformed or faithful some of the ideas he 
> presents sound entirely reasonable and supportable by any fair 
minded 
> person.
> However for me, Pedro's work is an extraordinary minimisation of 
some 
> real issues. 
> 
> As has been mentioned so many times in this forum, Bishop 
Leadbeater 
> produced utterly contradictory accounts of occult teachings from 
> Madame Blavatsky and her occult teachers, despite claiming to be in 
> direct contact with those very same teachers. He also lied and 
> deceived people on numerous occasions as is well documented and 
> validated. 
> 
> Unfortunately and yet again it needs to be stated that this is in 
no 
> way suggesting that Madame Blavatsky and her teachers are in 
> possession of absolute truth and that their students are, in 
effect, 
> blind devotees as Pedro and others seem concerned about. This is an 
> age old diversionary tactic, used consciously or unconsciously, of 
> subtly suggesting something where often no such thing exists.
> 
> Furthermore and once again, it is not suggesting that Bishop 
> Leadbeater was all bad and contributed nothing of any value. He was 
a 
> dedicated and hard worker for his version of theosophy, his Society 
> and his church.
> 
> However, Pedro either doesn't understand or doesn't want to 
> understand the gravity of Bishop Leadbeater's many intellectual 
> indiscretions and manifest incidents of breach of trust.
> It seems that matters of honour, integrity and truth are 
unimportant 
> with respect to spiritual teachers and teachings despite the good 
> Bishop's ardent professions to the contrary in most of his works.
> 
> Kind regards
> Nigel
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MarieMAJ41@ wrote:
> >
> > Hello Friends, I received this from another forum from Pedro 
> Oliveira, but thought u all might enjoy this.
> > 
> > Please find below the URL for a website dedicated to C. W. 
> Leadbeater.
> > 
> > http://www.cwlworld.info/index.html
> > 
> > 
> > With warm and fraternal regards to all,
> > 
> > Marie and Pedro Oliveira
> > 
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