Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00306)

I see. Well, maybe we could consider making a distinction between the 
message and the messenger. Theosophy may have emerged in this cycle 
in trappings of Victorianism (or the American version thereof) but in 
previous cycles  it had other raiment. However, the outside 
appearance is not very important compared to the inner essence. It is 
easy for us to become entangled in the trailing clouds of whatever 
era we are considering, but when we blow aside some of the mist, we 
might find some useful concepts, whether we call it Theosophy, 
Buddhiam, Christianity, Hinduism, or whatever. Things like loyalty, 
honor, courage, altruism. These essentials are what connect us, not 
the illusionary differences. 

Adelasie

On 13 Oct 2008 at 1:25, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote:

> 
> I am being deadly serious.
> 
> Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as such 
> internalized the
> culture of that time. But the culture has changed radically. Consider 
> that
> when the SD was written, there was no Uncertainty Principal, no 
> quantum
> mechanics, no general relativity. They never heard of the human 
> genome. And the
> culture was radically different, in ways that if one of the founders 
> landed
> in our time they would not recognize it and they would be shocked 
> beyond
> belief.
> 
> The values that society holds dear are vastly different. We little 
> use for
> the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of purity 
> and honor.
> The Master KH could call one of his colleagues, "the sternest of the
> Khobilligans," and not be greeted with laughter like the statement 
> was when
> someone read it in the Olcott library nearly 20 years ago. Stern is 
> not a virtue
> to us, it is an invitation to get a pie in the face.
> 
> Yet our brethren hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote 
> language
> that no one can make sense of any more and think that psuedo-sanskrit 
> will
> impress people. And we do not have to concern ourselves with the 
> occasional
> censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his objections matter.
> 
> We need to get rid of the kindling, the deadwood, the things that 
> just have
> not worked. The proper way to look at the old material is not to just 
> quote
> it and expect everyone to assent. It is to look at it and ask, is this
> really true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up with 
> that one?
> 
> And thus the truth of the matter is that I really do not care what the
> Masters said, or what the SD says in and of itself. Those are just 
> words and we
> have gazillions of words to choose from. We need to question question
> question and not stop questioning because some moron is impressed 
> with an imbecile
> like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a golden 
> dripping
> from the nose of God.
> 
> And we need most of all to get past this notion that the internal 
> politics
> of the TS somehow matters. who cares who is in charge of mowing the 
> lawn at
> Adyar?
> 
> Can I go too far? Not in this lifetime.
> 
> Chuck, who is very much the Heretic
> 
> In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:
> 
> ROFL...or...ROFL...or...<WBR>could it be u r bein
> 
> On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:47, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ 
> (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Actually I love it when people get steamed at my ideas. It is sort 
> of
> > like
> > they suddenly get "kick me" signs taped to their backs.
> >
> > The problem with some folks is that they think that being a
> > Theosophist is
> > like being some damned fool Baptist, and everyone sits around
> > agreeing with
> > everything. No no no. You have to question everything, including 
> your
> > fundamental premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their
> > words are not
> > holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said something does not 
> make
> > it true.
> > It only means that he was in a rotten mood when he wrote it.
> >
> > There are times that if I had my way I would burn all those musty 
> old
> > books
> > because there are times when it seems that would be the only way to
> > get light
> > out of them.
> >
> > In any event, I will continue to follow my old philosophy of
> > rhetoric, which
> > says that if someone says you have gone too far, you have not yet
> > gone far
> > enough.
> >
> > Chuck the Heretic
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/12/2008 9:33:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > _mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) writes:
> >
> > Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator either.
> >
> > This group has been around for more than a decade and it takes time
> > for
> > newbees to settle down here. From time to time you will find gems
> > here that
> > you cannot find anywhere else. Patience will pay heavy rewards in 
> the
> > long
> > run.
> >
> > mkr
> >
> > On 10/12/08, alex <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7
> > (mailto:_alexmorgan777@alexmorgan7_ 
> (mailto:alexmorgan777@hotmail.com) )
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Is this funny for everyone here?
> > > I'm not sure why the moderator is passively ok with this and even
> > > allows you to showoff your website. Is he still alive? I don't 
> know
> > > about others but I'm starting to get tired of deleting your 
> messages
> > > from my inbox.
> > > This crap is not Theosophy, this is just bored goofing around that
> > > spoils things for others, and makes the new comer puke on the 
> whole
> > > group and leave.
> > > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here already, I don't think we 
> need
> > > to see this nonsense anymore.
> > >
> > > Chuck, why don't you try to be like Milarepa and turn things 
> around,
> > > become the first Enlightened man in modern times to abandon the 
> path
> > > of sorcery and black magic?
> > > Think about it Chuck, you will increase the membership, peoples
> > > participation and get all our votes if you choose to run and
> > > promulgate the DOCTRINE of the Buddhas!
> > > What do you think? :)
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > --- In _theos-talk@ --- In _t --- In _theo
> > _talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) )
> > <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
> > > Drpsionic@.. Drpsionic@.
> > > >
> > > > Ok, the very first thing we have to do is get rid of those
> > obsolete
> > > ideas of
> > > > purity, self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on finding 
> what
> > > really is
> > > > going on.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck the heretic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:06:19 P.M. Central Daylight 
> Time,
> > > > danielhcaldwell@ danielhcal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called moral
> > code
> > > > or the ideas of truthfulness, purity, self-denial, charity, 
> etc.,
> > > we
> > > > have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."
> > > >
> > > > Quoted from a letter from the Chohan
> > > > ___http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)
> _http://www.http:http://wwwhttp: //wwhtt_ (http://www.http://wwwhttp: 
> //wwhttp://_)
> > (_http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)
> _http://www.theoshtthttp://www. http://_ 
> (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp: //www._) )
> > > > (__http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)
> _http://www.theoshtthttp://www. http://_ 
> (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp: //www._)
> > (_http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/) ety.org/pasadena/ 
> ety.or
> ety.or
> > > >
> > > > So exactly what do we preach and popularise?
> > > >
> > > > Are there certain teachings that constitute this "theosophy"? 
> And
> > > if
> > > > so, what are these teachings?
> > > >
> > > > And where do we find these teachings?
> > > >
> > > > And how do we learn about them and study them so that in turn we
> > > > can "preach and popularise" them?
> > > >
> > > > And who is "we"? The leaders of the TS? Elected officials of the
> > > > TS? Any member of the TS?
> > > >
> > > > And remember there is more than one TS or theosophical
> > organization
> > > > or association.
> > > >
> > > > Can non-members preach and popularise this theosophy?
> > > >
> > > > And in this same letter, the Chohan tells us:
> > > >
> > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > > The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must, --
> > > > supported by such evidence as we are preparing to give become
> > > > ultimately triumphant as every other truth. Yet it is absolutely
> > > > necessary to inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories,
> > > > unimpeachable facts for those who know, with direct inferences
> > > > deducted from and corroborated by the evidence furnished by 
> modern
> > > > exact science.... Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym of
> > > > truth....
> > > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > >
> > > > This is quite a CLAIM.
> > > >
> > > > "The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one...."
> > > >
> > > > So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one" and where 
> can
> > > we
> > > > find an exposition of this teaching?
> > > >
> > > > Is it to be found in THE SECRET DOCTRINE written by H.P.
> > Blavatsky?
> > > >
> > > > Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's "Man,
> > > > Whence, How, and Whither: A Record of Clairvoyant Investigation"
> > > >
> > > > Or in a book by Alice Bailey? or....in a book by Elizabeth 
> Claire
> > > > Prophet?
> > > >
> > > > If "we" are to popularise a knowledge of Theosophy, what exactly
> > do
> > > > we popularise?
> > > >
> > > > Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE?
> > > >
> > > > What if I start popularising the teaching of reincarnation that
> > > > includes the provision that humans can sometimes be reborn as
> > > > animals?
> > > >
> > > > Am I faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE?
> > > >
> > > > And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting the
> > > > DOCTRINE?
> > > >
> > > > In other words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE "doctrine" is?
> > > >
> > > > The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE is all
> > > about,
> > > > so where and how does one [an inquirer, a newcomer] discover 
> what
> > > the
> > > > DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in SUCH high regard?
> > > >
> > > > Daniel
> > > > ___http://hpb.cc_h_ (http://hpb.cc__/) (_http://hpb.cc_h_
> (http://hpb.cc_/) ) (__http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_)
> > (_http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/) ) )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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