Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00362)

On Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:17 am ((PDT)) "richard ruquist"  
yanniru@yahoo.com yanniru wrote:

> Leon,
>
> At what number does the BEC first happen in ABC?
> In my cosmology it is #1 .

The BEC -- which is essentially a non-separateness or internal  
continuity of any energy field at near zero degrees K -- would have  
to be the fundamental nature of the first highest order hyperspace  
field emanating out of the singularity (in absolute space) at the  
beginning of cosmogenesis, (or the genesis of any field or form in  
metric space).

Thus, potential BEC is the inherent nature of that pre-cosmic AS  
located everywhere in MS. i.e. ZPE (as well as the ZPF it generates,  
which in turn, condenses into fundamental particles on the physical/ 
material level) -- is a BEC.

Incidentally, I don't see ABC as being that much different than your  
cosmology -- (like the chicken and the egg or the seed and the  
plant;-).  The only major difference is that one looks at reality  
from the inside out, causatively and deductively, and the other, from  
the outside in, reductively and inductively.  Naturally, the  
different viewpoints change the conclusions... Like expansion changes  
to compaction, cause changes to effect, etc.  Thus, the deductive  
view (accepting potential consciousness, matter, BEC, spin momentum,  
etc., as being fundamental) can predict the reductive view, but the  
latter can only infer the former.
>
> At what number does intelligence,
> which I believe requires form,
> first come in?

Intelligence actually requires "information" (as the basis of form).   
Therefore, if the form of everything in the cosmos is based on pre- 
structural information -- then intelligence must be inherent in each  
zero-point "singularity" located everywhere... Beginning with the  
origin of the cosmos, and extending through every singularity or ZPE  
at the source of each particle and form -- along with all their  
harmonic, fractal involved hyper-space' and metric-space' radiant  
fields.

Consider, also, that the light information reflected or radiated from  
any body or image in metric space is contained holographically in  
every zero-point of that space.  Apparently, we are capable of seeing  
the entire holographic image  surface of any form no matter from what  
point in metric space we view it from.  Thus, intelligence is  
fundamental, holographically stored everywhere as wave interference  
patterns, and is prior to the cosmology -- no matter how described or  
symbolized.

Leon

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol.com>
> To: SPACETIMEandCONSCIOUSNESS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:19:51 AM
> Subject: [WEDconsc] Re: Soul
>
>
> Rybo and Yanni,
>
> Could it be that the problem in semantics you both have is not  
> recognizing the differences (and similarities) between "physical"  
> and/or "metaphysical, " and "material" and/or "substantial" ?
>
> Material things are physical and objective but not metaphysical,  
> yet both physical and metaphysical things are substantial in one  
> degree or another.  Therefore a BEC can be both physical and  
> metaphysical -- but not necessarial material. For instance, a  
> metaphysical hyperspace field is not material, but is susbstantial  
> (or objective)
>
> Perhaps -- for a logical (rational) universe to forever remain one  
> thing-in-itself -- the actual causal progression of anything  
> between nothing and everything, could be:
> 1. Formless but not forceless (insubstantial)  absolute space or  
> Aether;
> 2. metaphysical (subtly substantial)  nonmetric,  higher order  
> (fractally involved) hyperspacetime  radiant energy fields;
> 3. physical (less subtly substantial) metric spacetime radiant   
> energy fields, And
> 4. physical/material (grossly substantial or solid) mass-energy  
> standing wave concentrations and combinations (all inorganic and  
> organic forms or as Einstein said, "Ponderable matter").
>
> Leon
>
> 'Energy is space in motion." - Einstein
> "The (immaterial) fields of consciousness are coadunate but not  
> consubstantial. " - Blavatsky
> "The (phenomenal) consciousness and the matter are dependently  
> arising." - Buddha
>
> "I and my Father are one." - Christ
> "The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled." - Lao Tsu
>
> On Tue Oct 7, 2008 5:02 pm ((PDT)), "rybo6" rybo6@usit.net os_jbug  
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yanni, communication is dependent on having common agreements of
> definitions.
>
> Yanni, there are things existent as metaphysical and  things existent
> as physical i.e. there is metaphysical existence and there is
> physical existence.
>
> I think you are hung on semantic, whatever that is.
>
> The problem is that do appear to be able to distinguish between
> things of metaphysical existence and the existence things of physical
> existence.
>
> You ask  new questions but your responded to  none of those I asked  
> you.
>
> You gave contradictory statements also.
>
> If we both agree, that we accept there exist things we call physical
> aspects of universe, then gas, plasma, liquid and solid fall into
> that catagory.
>
> That appears to be simple conclusion to me.
>
> Rybo
> On Oct 7, 2008, at 7:37 AM, yanniru@aim. com wrote:
>
>
>
> Rybo,
>
> Do metaphysical things exist?
>
> I think you are hung up on semantics.
>
> Yanni
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2008, at 3:02 PM, John Clem wrote:
> Rybo, A BEC is just a state of a plasma, a gas, a liquid or a solid
> which could be either physical or not.
>
>
> I'm sorry Yanni, we appear to have a fundamental differrence of
> definition here.
>
> In no way can a state of plasma, gas, liguid or a solid not be
> considered as physical.
>
> Physical and metaphysical are the first generalized sub-
> catagorizations of Universe with a capital "U".
>
> If we can not come to some aggreements on this then it will only make
> all future communications more difficult.
>
> A gas can kill a person or make them laugh uncontrolably.
>
> Plasma can definitely kill any biological.
>
> Liguids also can kill or keep biologicals alive.
>
> Solids can have many varied affects on biologicals, so Yanni, please
> do not try and tell me those four are not physical as you appear to
> suggest at top of this message.
>
> Please try and explain yourself as that kind of statement makes no
> sense to me.
>
> Its kinda of like people who say EM-radiation is not physical, oh yeah
> (!) well sit out naked in sun for a long enough time to burn some
> skin and then have those people tell me how EM-Radiation is not
> physical.
>
> Hey, have then stare into a bright sun, without protection, for even
> shorter periods of time and then have them tell me that visibleEM-
> radiation is not physical.
>
> I think you may get my drift here.
>
> If you want me to get yours, again, it will take a whole lot of
> explaining, by you or someone, tho I doubt anyone can ever convince
> me that those four, are in anyway, *not* physical.
>
> Sincerely, Rybo
> P.S. more below but my tiime is almost out.
>
>
> Ultimately I believe everything is physical. But it is convenient to
> say that the known particles and forces are physical and the unknown
> particles and forces, are not physical.
>
>
> Well, if they exist, unknown to humans or not, then they are physical.
>
> You should have stopped with statement, that, "ultimately I believe
> everything is physical" is best answer you can give, excepting
> everything that is metaphysical, then we can move on with reasonable
> conversation.
>
> I gotta go now and hope you will respond to this physical and
> metaphysical definning. I will try to make it to your links at next
> opportunity.
>
> Rybo
>
>
>
> Regarding propagation speeds being limited to less than the constant
> called the speed of light c, there is a wealth of superluminal
> theorires and some data.
>
> Here is a link describing data where a pulse of light leaves a cell
> filled with a gas of cesium atoms before it enters it:
> http://www.aip. org/pnu/2000/ split/pnu495- 2.htm
>
> And here is a general discussion of superluminal
> light:http://www.wbabin. net/science/ faraj8.htm
>
> So not only can light be superluminal, it can actually jump ahead in
> time. Don't ask me how or why.
>
> Yanni
>
> --- In SPACETIMEandCONSCIO USNESS@yahoogrou ps.com, rybo6 <rybo6@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> Ok Yanni,
>
> "soul" is a micro "gas" mirror of the more metaphysical concept
> of "lifes a gas". :--)
>
> I think it is incorrect to think of Bose-Einstein Condensate as
> *not* be being physical i.e.
>
> "gas", liquids, matter, plasma are aspects of the finite physical
> universe.
>
> Gas, liquids, matter and plasma are limited to propagation speeds
> ergo they are not only pure, instantaneous, metaphysically
> intellectual concepts of Universe.
>
> Rybo
> =



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