Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00162)

Dear William and all,

>We also hear of attacks against the Esoteric Section. While not a 
member of the E.S. myself, I think that these assumptions are 
unfounded. These suspicions have been prevalent also in the past. I 
strongly believe in the Integrity and neutrality of the E.S in these 
matters. The E.S. does have its' legitimate place as a separate but 
allied organization for discipleship training, and has always 
cautioned and forbidden its membership from involving themselves in 
The T.S. issues or influencing T.S. matters in any way. Until my 
confidence in them is proven wrong, I will continue to give them the 
benefit of the doubt.<

I hope that demands for transparency are not considered as attacks. 
To get a transparent situation then some questions have to be 
addressed, as for instance:

What is the legal status of the Esoteric Section? Is it a registered 
organization? If yes, what are its by-laws? If not, why not? 

How can we define the relation between the Theosophical Society and 
the Esoteric Section if the Esoteric Section has no legal status? It 
is clear that in such a case there can not be any formal relation. 
But then other aspects are relevant, as for instance:

How many leading officers of the Theosophical Society are also 
members of the Esoteric Section? Can we say - if the leading officers 
of the Theosophical Society are also leading officers of the Esoteric 
Section - that there is no connection between these two organizations?

What was the connection between the Theosophical Society and the 
Esoteric Section in the past? You can see a document on this issue:
http://www.teozofija.info/tsmembers/Esoteric_Section_E.htm

And the end of the document there is a following excerpt:

A student of Theosophical history is apt to wonder how authentic this 
separation is, for he finds that the high officials of the Schools 
hold similar positions in the Theosophical Society. Does this 
constitute the official disconnection which the School advocates? In 
a pamphlet entitled The Essentials and Non-Essentials of a 
Theosophical Organization by the well-known Theosophist William 
Kingsland, we read: 

"It is quite right that members of an Esoteric Group or Section - who 
may be supposed to be somewhat in advance of the ordinary run of 
members - should be a leavening influence in the outer Organization. 
But that they should control that Organization by reason of a pledge 
to obey the instructions of any particular Head of the Section - 
thereby practically establishing an autocracy - is utterly wrong both 
in principle and in practice."  

????????

Therefore we have to address the following question: Is it true that 
the Esoteric Section (or its Outer Head) cautioned and forbidden its 
membership from involving themselves in The T.S. issues or 
influencing T.S. matters in any way?

Let's have a look at Mrs. Besant's remarks in The Theosophist of 
October 1907: 

"In the T.S. we have a curious mixture. The Exoteric Society is 
purely democratic - it is only fair to admit this fully. On the other 
side we have an Esoteric body which is practically autocratic in its 
constitution ... The existence of a secret body to rule the outer 
Society made the constitution of the T.S. a mere farce, for it was at 
the mercy of the inner ? All the differences that arose between the 
Colonel and myself were on this point; he could not believe that I 
was serious in saying that I would not use the E.S. against him, but 
slowly he came to understand it ... The greatest power will always be 
in the hands of the E.S., and not in the head of the Society ... I 
know that I exercise a quite unwarrantable power. This is what makes 
some people say there should not be an E.S.T. ? We must recognize the 
danger and try to neutralize it. At any time during the last fifteen 
years I could have checkmated the Colonel on any point if I had 
chosen ..." 

"An inquirer might reasonably ask whether or not the Outer Heads of 
all the Schools are or have been as judicious in the use of their 
power, as was Mrs. Besant; and if not, to what extent are the 
problems of the Movement due to the abuse of this power?"

Can we discern abuse of this power from Bhagavan Das' letter?
http://www.parascience.org/images/The_Esoteric_Section_Exposed.pdf

Are words of C.W. Leadbeater as cited by Ernest Wood display of this 
abuse?

He said to me: "We must try to get our own people in as General 
Secretaries in as many countries as possible." He wrote many letters 
hinting that certain persons were the best. I did not question his 
earnestness and sincerity, but I thought that he ought to have gone 
out and started a new society on his own lines, which were quite 
different from those for which the Theosophical Society was intended. 
But he won his way, on account of his extraordinary persistence.

?????????..

Now the question is: did the situation changed after A. Besant and 
C.W. Leadbeater passing? Documents on the history of the Theosophical 
Society in former Yugoslavia show that the situation even grew worst, 
at least in my country:
http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Piltaver_letter.htm
http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Decay.htm

There are several events which I could cite from my own experience 
but I will finish this message with an "innocent" one. 

I informed a friend that she can attend a lecture held by an 
international theosophical lecturer in her own town. At the end of 
lecture she had a conversation with one of the leading officers of 
the TS in Slovenia and mentioned that she often visits my website. 
The officer answered: "But you have to be careful, that is not true 
theosophy!"

.................

But we will not know the real situation until members of the Esoteric 
Section will not begin to speak about the problem openly and not just 
unethically denying its existence. 

Warmest regards,
Anton



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "t_s_theosophist" 
<THEOSOPHIST@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHANGE, CONSENSUS & THE MIND OF THE MEMBERSHIP 
> 
> Dear Fellow Theosophists; 
> 
> There is a need for greater lateral communication among the 
Lodges,Groups & the Membership in general. 
> 
> Currently most communication originates from the National 
Headquarters without adequate membership participation. This project 
is an attempt to address this situation. 
> 
> We invite your open participation. This is to be a Forum at which 
you can express your opinions, ideas and concerns with all other 
Theosophists without fear of being edited. We are Not controlled by 
National Headquarters. 
> 
> Your comments will be posted just as you intend them. However we do 
request that you observe our three ground rules. 
> 
> 
> 1. Always address only Issuse, Not personalities, this is Not an 
attack forum. 
> 
> 
> 2 Please address Only Issues, not matters of Teaching or Doctrine. 
There are many other fine websites that deal with our Teachings. 
> 
> 
> 3. Please be Rational and avoid Emotionalism. We may Strongly Dis-
agree, that's OK! We do Not have to agree. But we must strive to keep 
an open mind and seek further clarification and understanding. We can 
dis-agree in a manner that does not denigrate the personhood of 
anyone or alienate us from their Goodwill. 
> 
> [ Posting which violate these ground rules will be deleted] 
> 
> 
> From such Open, Honest & Respectful Dialogue we all can achieve new 
insights and understandings which would have not occured previously. 
> 
> 
> The words of our classic "Golden Stairs" begin with: " A Clean 
Life, An Open Mind."   
> 
> 
> What is an Open Mind? Is it one with strongly held preconceptions, 
or an agenda? Or is it one that is willing to consider without 
prejudice the "emergent values and insights" that occur in Honest, 
Respectful and Open Dialogue? 
> 
> 
> We need to talk together and find these emergent insights and 
understandings. 
> 
> These will give us an intelligent basis for formulating any changes 
we might want or need to consider. 
> In the Theosophical Society there is NO Authority to adjudicate or 
Pontificate these matters. We do Not elect Gurus, we elect 
Administrators. 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the administrators we elect are also Good Students of 
Theosophy. We are ALL Students. Some are more learned, others just 
beginning. But there is No Orthodoxy to compel us or deprive us of 
our freedom of conscience 
> 
> 
> So finding a Consensus by poling the Mind of the Membership is 
critical to nurturing and maintaining our Theosophical Traditions of 
Individual Freedom. 
> 
> 
> Intelligent changes that are congruent with our Traditions are 
brought about this way. Which also means that Our elected Leaders 
must be responsive to the membership  or they are betraying our 
Traditions. 
> 
> 
> Leaders who ignore this Consensus must have either their own or 
someone else's private agenda to promote. That does not seem to be 
having an "Open Mind." Nor can asking the opinion of 12 or 15 people 
who also happen 
> be be in your employ, be considered a legitimate Consensus of the 
Membership. 
> 
> 
> We have heard recently of many many cases in which members 
communication to the Leadership and/or their District Director has 
been ignored, not answered. They are Silent. 
> 
> 
> This is Not a noble silence, it is a cowerdly evasion. This 
certainly cannot be construed as being responsive or keeping in touch 
with the membership, and creates a sense of alienation in the 
membership. 
> 
> 
> This attitude creates an adversarial feeling between the membership 
& National Headquarters, and is very detrimental to fostering 
fellowship and goodwill. 
> 
> 
> We also hear the term "Elite" Theosophists. In actuality there are 
No "Elite " Theosophists, We are ALL "Elite." You must awaken from a 
sense of inferiority and claim and demand your equal status be 
recognized. Those who perpetrate or imagine or think that they enjoy 
an "Elite " status are caught in a web of egotistical pride, 
certainly contrary to our egaltarian tradition of Universal 
Brotherhood. 
> 
> 
> We must remember that The Society is NOT the National Headquarters, 
it is US, The Society Is US, an organic living collective 
consciousness. 
> 
> And that those whom we have elected that fail to be responsive to 
US have forfeited their right to represent US, they are acting on 
their own agenda Not OURS. 
> 
> 
> We Must Demand that They Listen and act on Our consensus....or they 
will continue to disregard us and mis-represent OUR Society. The 
apathy of the membership is their license to continue to dis-regard 
us. 
> 
> 
> We also hear of attacks against the Esoteric Section. While not a 
member of the E.S. myself, I think that these assumptions are 
unfounded. These suspicions have been prevalent also in the past. I 
strongly believe in the Integrity and neutrality of the E.S in these 
matters. The E.S. does have its' legitimate place as a separate but 
allied organization for discipleship training, and has always 
cautioned and forbidden its membership from involving themselves in 
The T.S. issues or influencing T.S. matters in any way. Until my 
confidence in them is proven wrong, I will continue to give them the 
benefit of the doubt. 
> 
> 
> We need to talk about these and many other things. There is 
no "Glass ceiling" to our dialogue, other than our three ground rules 
of courtesy. Please join in and express yourself. 
> 
> 
> Issues like removing the Theosophical Seal from our website & 
letterhead are serious. The Seal represents an epitome of the 
Perennial Wisdom of all ages and has Great Significance in our 
Tradition. If one is embarrased or uncomfortable with it, maybe they 
are in the wrong organization. 
> 
> 
> Rather than hide it we should study it so that we are able to 
intelligently explain it to others. After all Our Society does stand 
for something, and Our Seal represents what we stand for. 
> 
> 
> Questions of Consensus: How many of you agree with the removal of 
our Seal? 
> 
> 
> How many of you want to give up you right to vote for our 
International President? 
> 
> 
> We could talk about many other things, these are just examples to 
get us started. 
> 
> 
> Although our primary focus is Adyar Theosophists in the United 
States, We cordially also welcome the amity and participation of ALL 
Theosophists worldwide...We want you too. 
> 
> 
> N. Sri Ram once wrote one of the most beautiful expressions of 
spirituality that I have ever encountered:    
> 
> "When you are one with every heart that beats, then you are nothing 
in yourself." 
>   
> " I will listen to you, especially when we dis-agree." 
> 
> Can each of us, in honor of Sri Ram begin to listen to all others 
as though we were one with every heartbeat on earth?  Let's do it. 
> 
> 
> Let us QUEST Together in Fraternal Respect and Goodwill. 
> 
> 
> Fraternally & Respectfully;
> 
> Wiliam Delahunt
> Orlando, Florida
> Theosophist@... 
> 
> 
> --------------------- 
> 
> 
> LET'S TALK 
> 
> Click this link to begin the journey and Dialogue... 
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSDIALOGUE/ 
> 
> 
> ========================== 
> 
> 
> KEEP UP TO DATE ON THESE ISSUES 
> 
> Refer to these websites: 
> 
> A Time For Healing And Creative Solutions 
> 
> (click link) 
> http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Healing_Time.htm 
> 
> 
> -------------------- 
> 
> Wake-Up Say What You Think
> 
> http://eletzerich.wordpress.com 
> 
> ------------------ 
> 
> After the TS President Elections 2008 
> 
> 
http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/After_Elections_2008.htm 
> 
> ------------------------ 
> 
> 
> PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS NOTE TO OTHER THEOSOPHISTS YOU KNOW OF. AND 
SHARE WITH YOUR LODGES & GROUPS. 
> 
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