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Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?

Nov 10, 2008 09:20 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen


Dear John and all

My views are:

This one with Jorge Angel Livraga Rizzi?

"New Acropolis in the World: Its beginnings"
His lectures are collected into a four-volume work entitled "Magic, Religion and Science for the 21st Century".
http://www.acropolis.org.au/AboutNewAcropolis.htm



----- Original Message ----- From: <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?


Hmmm,
Well many people here never even heard of "The New Acropolis" or it's successor "The School of Hastinapura" they both taught Theosophy. I was a founding member of the Western USA New Acropolis in LA, the Director was and may still be a Member of this Forum ands ws also one of the national featured lecturers used by Wheaton Hdqtrs. The two organizations were originally founded by George Angel Rivlag, Cheviale' de Spain, and his wife Ada Albrecht. They had Branches in Europe, America, and So. America back in the mid- 1907's. The School of Hastinapura originated when a division occurred between the Husband and wife Team. around 1978 or '79. One could research using Reference Works like "The Directory of Associations", I used to have it, but I donated it to a community library.

Regards,
John





-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>

Yes.
But, where is the present day work in other parts of the world, which the Master talked about? Have some theosophists for years been underestimating the Himalayan Lodge and the Masters?

And:
What were the lecturer Ernest Wood engaged in before he died?
What happened to Alice Leighton Cleather and Basil Crump in their lives?
What happened to all those wise members who went away when CWL was admitted inside again in 1908?

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?

"There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and
the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly
going on in all parts of the world."

Guys&Dolls, this sais it all. It doesn't matter if the TS is burned to smithereens; there is always a backup to be launched immediately under a different name with different people, but with the same noble hearts driving its course. So puleaaaase quit this dramatic behavior and start preparing the fireworks...

--- On Sun, 11/9/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:11 PM

Dear Anton

About the "dangerous" issue:

What you cannot change will die out. Just like ancient religions from ages past.

Some branches do not bear fruit, and will heva to be released by other branches.

Mahatma Letter 47:

"So let us talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart is warm and you end by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to me right be done or not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is a large place but the world is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not for a part. There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly going on in all parts of the world. " (http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /mahatma/ ml-47.htm)

Anton wrote:

"And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet"

My answer:

Do you know that?

Think about what you actually are saying.

Anton wrote:

"Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it didn't

achieve its goal "

My answer:

Some attempt end up in failure. And some persons fall on the Path.

It seems obvious, that Annie Besant tripped fell, although she also did something good.

Anton wrote:

"Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the

Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual."

My answer:

But H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters did organise it, in part, and with some success!

Because the real organisation is the Himalyan Lodge or the Master Lodge.

Saying that the Masters are not esoterically organised and dis-organised is rubbish as far as I am concerned. The Path is the Law of Karma. The Law of Karma is organised esoterically.

And no it is NOT as you say "a matter of each individual" alone.

In one sense your are quite right. But in another, it is a clear fact, that we can never walk alone.

Never Anton. The world and the Oneness are there simultaniously. It is a paradox.

Should we abandon Masters teachings and follow J. Krishnamurti and reject all thoughts about chelaship, and learn to use occult powers by our own?

Never. Never ever.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message -----
From: Anton Rozman

To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:41 AM

Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?

Dear Morten,

Why is that a dangerous model?<

It is dangerous because it detours round the Society's constitutional

platform and its democratic process.

The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member

will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself.<

This is an ideal to strive for but not the reality of the situation.

And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet they should

apply to constitutional frame which role is to instruct and force

them to behave in a fraternal manner.

So creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad

at all if the present TS is not running properly.<

Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it didn't

achieve its goal and that its members didn't become cohesive and

fraternal force in the TS, quite the contrary. Every organization

established by a spiritual authority for the spiritual progress of

its members sooner or later becomes by default autocratic and

dogmatic. Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the

Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual.

Each member is only a member voluntarily.

Each group its own nucleus.

One should know one on ones fruits.

And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.<

Yes, exactly. Why create new TS which will possibly respect the

original program, constitutional platform and objects in a greater

degree if this is possible already within the present TS as every

lodge, national society and federation has all freedom to do that.

The work must be done from the ground not from the top. The top can

just encourage this with its own example. There are no shortcuts to

greater democracy and spirituality - every member has to do her/his

own homework.

This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.<

Well, this is the big question. Is the TS a tool for Chela-ship? On

individual level it can and should be. But I think that it is much

more than that. It is a tool for greater harmony and peace in the

world - if it will work as it was meant to work.

Warmest regards,

Anton

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-

theosophy@.. .> wrote:



Dear Anton and friends



My views are:



Anton wrote:

"In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model,

namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded

by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is

loyal

to the Cause and original program of the Society and act

accordingly. "





M. Sufilight says:

Why is that a dangerous model?



The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member

will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself. So

creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad at

all if the present TS is not running properly.





Each member are only a member volunterely.



Each group its own nucleus.

One should know one on ones fruits.

And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.



"The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy,

or the

competence of another man or institution, he must first learn

something

which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his

perception

itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional

attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'.

This

is 'Learning How To

Learn." (Idries Shah)





This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.





M. Sufilight





----- Original Message -----

From: Anton Rozman

To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:05 AM

Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?





Dear friends,



I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service to

the

humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in a

democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts

to

reform the Society are worthwhile.



Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB

actually

said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of the

Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and

that

the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and

Adyar

depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the Cause.

Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the

original program of the Society, she would shake it off like dust

from her feet.



In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model,

namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is

regarded

by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is

loyal

to the Cause and original program of the Society and act

accordingly.

And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that

those

who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual

leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters

thought)

were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in the

Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the

Society

will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able to

address this issue properly.



And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous

situation.



Warmest regards,

Anton



--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:

>

> Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!

>

> The scare part it is that it might be true!

>

> Chuck the Heretic

>

>

> In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard

Time,

> semockr@ writes:

>

>

>

>

> I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his

position

as

> figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his

> initiatives in this regard have had the slightest impact on the

> communist govt that has Tibet in its deadly embrace.

>

> This implys that president elect Obama has approached him with

an

> offer to join his Administration of Change as secretary of

Ancient

> Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed in the

> executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the

position

> but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and then

by

way

> of communication and this was not sufficient contact to satisfy

the

> ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.

>

> For the first time in history then, the SD has a real chance to

> replace the Bible and to have Theosophy occupy its rightful

place

as

> Law of the Land in the USA. After this has taken place, the

other

> countrys will fall in line and Theosophy will experience a

resurgence

> that will beggar description of any previous coup.

>

> --- In _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-

talk@yahoogroups. com) ,

> MKR <mkr777@> wrote:

> >

> > Well said.

> >

> > "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."

> >

> > Looking at the membership trend over the last 20 years world-

wide

> outside of

> > India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues

every

> minute.

> >

> > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the wise ones

with

> total

> > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the buck stops at

the

> sections.

> >

> > To address any problem, first correct problem has to be

identified.

> Then

> > solutions can be found.

> >

> > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in membership

in

all

> > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of

the "leaders"

> even wants

> > to talk about it, because much of the decline took place in

their

> watch and

> > they have no explanation.

> >

> > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do anything

to

> address the

> > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual organization

held

> together

> > by blind followers with blind faith and blind beliefs.

> >

> > It is all about a handful of GC members trying to do away

with

> members'

> > rights and seize power. That would give access to all the

assets

> which they

> > can spend as they want. In addition, they can put their

Puppet

as

> the

> > President with wings clipped. Losers will be members, TS and

> theosophy.

> >

> > And it would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.

> >

> > That is where we are today.

> >

> > MKR

> >

> > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter

> <monad_monad_ monad_mon

> > > wrote:

> >

> > > All membership comes from inspiration. All inspiration

comes

from

> > > enlightened leadership. It often takes great luminaries

like

HPB

> to light a

> > > fire in those around them. If the structure of the

Theosophical

> > > Society keeps out purposely or by default those of advanced

> spiritual

> > > development they will never attract new members. If new and

> enlightened

> > > leadership do not come into an organization or institution

to

> give it

> > > continue renewal and spiritual life that institution will

die

a

> slow

> > > agonizing death from bureaucratic minutiae and

organizational

> suffocation.

> > > This is why some advocate revolution. If you cannot reform

and

> change the

> > > old structures you either create new ones in there place or

get

> out of the

> > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian

impulses

do

> there

> > > work.

> > >

> > >

> > > DC

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ ____ ____

> > > From: MKR <mkr777@>

> > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-

talk@yahoogroups. com)

> > > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM

> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?

> > >

> > > From an ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have

mentioned

> several

> > > time

> > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is NOT

> changing the

> > > rules.

> > >

> > > It is the rapid and continuing decline in the number of

members

> in all the

> > > sections outside India.

> > >

> > > TS was setup as fully autonomous at lodge and section

levels.

So

> the

> > > problem

> > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the

members

in

> the

> > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules is going to

do

> nothing to

> > > address the problem. The only thing that will do to by

tweaking

> and

> > > meddling

> > > with the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise the

> members and

> > > seize

> > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively making

the

> president a

> > > puppet in the hands of a few GC members.

> > >

> > > Once this happens, in our life time we will see the end of

TS

> because we

> > > are

> > > not like other spiritual organizations whose basis is blind

faith

> and blind

> > > beliefs.

> > >

> > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention the membership

decline

> issue? It

> > > is a very sorry state of affairs.

> > >

> > > mkr

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman

<anton_rozman@ ant>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear friends,

> > > >

> > > > What is the main interest of the Theosophical Society as

an

> > > > international institution or common interest of all

members

of

> the

> > > > Theosophical Society?

> > > >

> > > > In first place, to neutralize all partial interests of

> individual

> > > > members or groups of members which identify themselves

with

> those of

> > > > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to

realize

> its

> > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform. In

present

> > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and crippled.

> > > >

> > > > The scissors and linen to overcome it are wholly in the

hands

> of the

> > > > elected President. She, and only she, has received a

mandate

to

> unify

> > > > the Society under a common interest. She has the power

and

> authority

> > > > to do that.

> > > >

> > > > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to

solve

> actual

> > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the President

has

> > > > authority to: ââ,¬Â¦ a special meeting may be called at

any

time by

> the

> > > > President ââ,¬Â¦ the President at his discretion may

call such

> members to

> > > > a meeting for the purpose of study and discussion of any

matters

> > > > concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to

lay

> before

> > > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its

report

> on

> > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon. Such

meetings

> > > > shall be of a consultative nature without administrative

or

> > > > legislative authority, or may be of a legislative nature

upon

> the

> > > > decision of the General Council taken at least one year

in

> advance.

> > > > In the event the President does not himself attend such a

> meeting he

> > > > may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of

the

> General

> > > > Council to preside in his stead.

> > > >

> > > > On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of

internet

> > > > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed to

address

> > > > important critical issues. With making such discussion

panel

> public

> > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its members and

public in

> > > > general that it is able to overcome divisions and find a

common

> > > > interest according to the philosophy the Society is

promoting.

> > > >

> > > > This is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death

alley

> we are

> > > > catched in.

> > > >

> > > > Warmest regards,

> > > > Anton

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ ---- ---- -

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

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