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Theos-World Pyramids

Jan 17, 2009 04:51 PM
by christinaleestemaker


And what about Atlanteans, who worshipped with contra powers???








--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Martin wrote:
> "The egyptians knew this and built their Gizeh pyramids 
accordingly..."
> 
> Well, did they actually? And who build them and when?
> 
> This view you offer have been disputed, because of the positions of 
the Pyramids are not quite as precise as some want them to be.
> 
> The Buval & Hankock theory says according to Wikipedia:
> "The basis of this theory concerns the proposition that the 
relative positions of three main Ancient Egyptian pyramids on the 
Giza plateau are (by design) correlated with the relative positions 
of the three stars in the constellation of Orion which make up 
Orion's Beltââ?¬â?? as these stars appeared ca. 10,500 BC.
> 
> Egyptology and archaeological science maintain that available 
evidence indicates that the Giza pyramids and the Great Sphinx were 
constructed during the Fourth dynasty period (3rd millennium BC[1]). 
Hancock does not dispute the dating evidence for the pyramids, but 
instead argues that they must have been planned with the knowledge of 
how the stars had appeared some eight thousand years before they were 
actually built ââ?¬â??since the Orion Constellation Theory claims they 
are oriented that wayââ?¬â?? which it is implied provides further 
evidence for the influence of a technology and knowledge which would 
not have been available to the pyramids' builders."
> 
> 
> 
> *** But this is not in accordance with the whole truth. ***
> 
> Criticism crept in after a while:
> "Among these critiques are several from two astronomers, Ed Krupp 
of Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles and Anthony Fairall, astronomy 
professor at the University of Cape Town, South Africa. Using 
planetarium equipment, Krupp and Fairall independently investigated 
the angle between the alignment of Orion's Belt and north during the 
era cited by Hancock, Bauval et al. (which differs from the angle 
seen today or in the 3rd millennium BC, because of the precession of 
the equinoxes), and found that the angle was considerably different 
from the "perfect match" claimed by Bauval and Hancock in the Orion 
Constellation Theoryââ?¬â?? 47-50 degrees per the planetarium 
measurements, compared to the 38 degree angle formed by the pyramids."
> 
> "Krupp also pointed out that the slightly-bent line formed by the 
three pyramids was deviated towards the north, whereas the slight 
"kink" in the line of Orion's Belt was deformed to the south, and to 
match them up one or the other of them had to be turned upside-down.
[3] Indeed, this is what was done in the original book by Bauval and 
Gilbert (The Orion Mystery), which compared images of the pyramids 
and Orion without revealing the pyramids' map had been inverted."
> 
> 
> I know, that the first measurements by Krupp and Fairall later have 
been confirmed. The last claim I am not at present aware of.
> Yet. Buvals theory is therefore not resting on such a solid ground 
as some New-Agers would like it to be. But, this is theory, and Buval 
could just as easily be telling the truth, because of changes in the 
Earth rotation patterns and similar issues. - At least Buval's 
theories have created a good stir in the narrowminded Archaeological 
circles. Let us thank him for doing that.
> 
> 
> ----- A Parallel view to consider is the followng ----
> - According to H. P. Blavatsky the Pyramids at Gizeh is either 
about 80.000 years old or about build 3350 bc. Though she is 
deliberately unprecise.
> - According to Idries Shah they big one named Khufu's Pyramid - was 
- according to local and other evidence - build 3733 BC.
> (This is in fact within archaeological range. Although Haiwas want 
people to believe dirfferently.)
> - According to Z. Sitchin (this man throw a lot of exoteric numbers 
- if you know how to read him) - the Pyramids was build by Arjuna 
(known by Blavatsky as Orfeus). 
> - According to Sai Baba - I do not know, yet. But he says, that 
Arjuna lived 3700 BC. And not 3100 BC. like Blavatsky appearntly do.
> 
> - According to H. S. Olcott and others we have that the Pyramids 
builders came from India somewhere south of Mumbai near the
> from a place called Punt, where various plants are growing, which 
is exactly present in India and not in South Africa as the ordinary 
theory wants us to believe.
> 
> Col. Henry Steel Olcott, a former president of the Theosophical 
Society, who explained in a March, 1881 edition of The Theosophist 
(page 123) that: 
> 
> "We have a right to more than suspect that India, eight thousand 
years ago, sent a colony of emigrants who carried their arts and high 
civilization into what is now known to us as Egypt...This is what 
Bengsch Bey, the modern as well as the most trusted Egyptologer and 
antiquarian says on the origin of the old Egyptians. Regarding these 
as a branch of the Caucasian family having a close affinity with the 
Indo-Germanic races, he insists that they 'migrated from India before 
historic memory, and crossed that bridge of nations, the Isthus of 
Suez, to find a new fatherland on the banks of the Nile."
> 
> The Egyptians came, according to their own records, from a 
mysterious land...on the shore of the Indian Ocean, the sacred Punt; 
the original home of their gods...who followed thence after their 
people who had abandoned them to the valley of the Nile, led by Amon, 
Hor and Hathor. This region was the Egyptian 'Land of the Gods,' Pa-
Nuter, in old Egyptian, or Holyland, and now proved beyond any doubt 
to have been quite a different place from the Holyland of Sinai. By 
the pictorial hieroglyphic inscription found on the walls of the 
temple of the Queen Haslitop at Der-el-babri, we see that this Punt 
can be no other than India. For many ages the Egyptians traded with 
their old homes, and the reference here made by them to the names of 
the Princes of Punt and its fauna and flora, especially the 
nonmenclature of various precious woods to be found but in India, 
leave us scarcely room for the smallest doubt that the old 
civilization of Egypt is the direct outcome of that the older India."
> (Try here: http://www.hinduwisdom.info/India_and_Egypt.htm )
> 
> Also, but un-confirmed:
> "It is testified by Herdotus, Plato, Salon, Pythagoras, and 
Philostratus that the religion of Egypt proceeded from India....It is 
testified by Neibuhr, Valentia, Champollian and Weddington that the 
temples of upper Egypt are of greater antiquity than those of lower 
Egypt...that consequently the religion of Egypt, according to the 
testimony of those monuments....came from India...The chronicles 
found in the temples of Abydos and Sais and which have been 
transmitted by Josephus, Julius Africanus, and Eusebius, all testify 
that the religious system of the Egyptians proceeded from India."
> (Try here: http://www.hinduwisdom.info/India_and_Egypt.htm )
> 
> 
> 
> And I remember, that Blavatasky somewhere in The Secret Doctrine 
said that the Jews came from India about 8.000 years ago.
> 
> I hope this helps, the Seekers After Truth.
> 
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Martin 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:09 PM
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
> 
>   Return of Orion
> 
>   the Great Hunter or Celestial Warrior, Orion: he shines "like a
>   gigantic piece of celestial jewelry through the frosty winter 
air." 
> 
>   Indeed,
>   Orion is by far the most brilliant of the constellations and is 
visible
>   from every inhabited part of the Earth. As darkness descends, he
>   clearly dominates the southeast sky. Three bright stars in line 
in the
>   middle of a bright rectangle decorate Orion's belt, which point
>   northward to the clusters of the Hyades and Pleiades of Taurus, 
and
>   southward to the Dog Star Sirius.  
> 
>   Within Orion we find two
>   immense stars, Rigel and Betelgeuse, apparently at two entirely
>   different periods in a star's existence.  
> 
>   A tale of two stars
> 
>   Rigel
>   (the "Left Leg of the Giant"), is a blue-white supergiant star, 
one of
>   the rarest breeds in our galaxy; it's one of the most 
intrinsically
>   luminous of all stars and one of the hottest, apparently just 
reaching
>   the prime of its life in the time span of a star and literally 
"burning
>   the candle at both ends." It has been computed that Rigel's 
luminosity
>   is something like 36,000 times that of the sun. Our best estimates
>   currently place it at 773 light-years away.  
> 
>   In contrast, red
>   supergiants like Betelgeuse ("The Armpit of the Giant") are 
gigantic
>   bloated globes of cooler gas. If such a star were to replace the 
sun in
>   the solar system, it might extend beyond Mars' orbit.  
> 
>   Betelegeuse
>   is near the end of its career, some 522 light-years away, but not
>   shining with a steady light. It is a "pulsating" star, expanding 
and
>   contracting spasmodically with a diameter that varies from 550 to 
920
>   times that of the sun, but so irregular are these pulsations that 
no
>   one can predict exactly when it will expand or contract.  
> 
>   In
>   trying to describe Betelegeuse many years ago, a lecturer at New 
York's
>   Hayden Planetarium noted that it is "like an old man with his 
strength
>   almost entirely spent, panting in the asthmatic decrepitude of 
old age."
> 
>   Orions belt contain 3 stars which are positioned in an angle. The 
egyptians knew this and built their Gizeh pyramids accordingly...
>   The last time Orion visited this planet was when the starsign 
Libra was added to the celestial signs of the zodiac. This time the 
snakebearer will be added (between scorpio and sagitarius). The 
occult meaning I will discuss some other time :-)
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...> 
wrote:
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...>
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 2:54 PM
> 
>   You just ask those in USA about that. 
> 
>   They know about deep-freeze attitutdes these days. :-)
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:45 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Agreed and it is not the fysical climate that is currently 
changing btw....some1 is dancing very co(s)mically for a few 
centuries now...I bet he smokes and drinks :-)
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 2:36 PM
> 
>   Thanks.
> 
>   I would say, that Climate Changes and so does the Bees and their 
dances.
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:53 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Morten,
> 
>   You are doing a good job, keep up the good work and remember 
always: you know a bee by the pollen it spreads...
> 
>   And now we have no slavery or have we?
> 
>   > I don't feel forced to do anything but that which the One 
Spirit asks me...asks I say, not forces :-)
> 
>   Down on earth I just vacuum cleaned my white house and 
ammoniacized it as is custom on the Canary Islands and in Spain. Next 
I will be hunting spy-ders and put them outside. There was a wasp 
sitting between my eyes for a while spinning its body around...I 
wonder what music it was dancing to, since I wasn't even hearing a 
buzz or whatever bleep. And have you ever seen wasp dancing, usually 
it is bees doing so...
> 
>   Next then is shopping, then getting bored by waiting The Wait, so 
I will switch on the machines again to compuse some music...compuse, 
since I use computers, not handwriting. .that is so past...:-)
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 1:41 PM
> 
>   Dear Martin
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Martin, Thanks for sharing the thought.
> 
>   Yes. That idea is wellmeaning, but requires - action as well.
> 
>   Inaction in the Christian sense is merely prayer.
> 
>   The theosophical teaching aims at action being transcended, when 
possible.
> 
>   And yes: PraBrahm does not act, because ParaBrahm is neither 
nothing or something, and beyond thought and time - as mentioned by 
HPB in her book The Secret Doctrine.
> 
>   Meditation under a tree happens when it is due. The same on 
Meditation in the cave or at another place. Meditation can also 
happen like the Mahatmas did, while riding the horse near Ladakh or 
by materialising and talking with Olcott or other Seekers after 
Truth. Even Avatar in incarnation have to act.
> 
>   I am ACTING. Right now I am finishing the - as far as I know - 
FIRST FULL translation of seceond edition of The Key to Theosophy 
into Danish. Only Joy Mills version can be bought today. It is 
heavily mutilated and without the 1890 wordbook.
> 
>   I am right now reading it through correcting mistakes here and 
there.
> 
>   I am quite unfortunate in having been unable to find a true 
fascimile version of the second 1890 edition. Only this one: http://
www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm
> 
>   - - - 
> 
>   Two excerpts from the above version of The Key to Theosophy:
> 
>   "This is what the scholarly author of "The Eclectic Philosophy," 
Prof. A. Wilder, F. T. S., describes as "spiritual photography" : 
"The soul is the camera in which facts and events, future, past, and 
present, are alike fixed; and the mind becomes conscious of them. 
Beyond our every-day world of limits all is one day or state ââ?¬â?? the 
past and future comprised in the present." . . . Death is the last 
ecstasis on earth. Then the soul is freed from the constraint of the 
body, and its nobler part is united to higher nature and becomes 
partaker in the wisdom and foreknowledge of the higher beings." Real 
Theosophy is, for the mystics, that state which Apollonius of Tyana 
was made to describe thus: "I can see the present and the future as 
in a clear mirror. The sage need not wait for the vapours of the 
earth and the corruption of the air to foresee events. . . . The 
theoi, or gods, see the future; common men the present; sages that 
which is about to take place."
> 
>   "The Theosophy of the Sages" he speaks of is well expressed in 
the assertion, "The Kingdom of God is within us."" (p. 11)
> 
>   ""At the close of the Middle Ages slavery, under the power of 
moral forces, had mainly disappeared from Europe; but two momentous 
events occurred which overbore the moral power working in European 
society and let loose a swarm of curses upon the earth such as 
mankind had scarcely ever known. One of these events was the first 
voyaging to a populated and barbarous coast where human beings were a 
familiar article of traffic; and the other the discovery of a new 
world, where mines of glittering wealth were open, provided labour 
could be imported to work them. For four hundred years men and women 
and children were torn from all whom they knew and loved, and were 
sold on the coast of Africa to foreign traders; they were chained 
below decks�the dead often with the living�during the horrible 
'middle passage,' and, according to Bancroft, an impartial historian, 
two hundred and fifty thousand out of three and a quarter millions 
were thrown into the sea on that
> 
>   fatal passage, while the remainder were consigned to nameless 
misery in the mines, or under the lash in the cane and rice fields. 
The guilt of this great crime rests on the Christian Church. 'In the 
name of the most Holy Trinity' the Spanish Government (Roman 
Catholic) concluded more than ten treaties authorising the sale of 
five hundred thousand human beings; in 1562 Sir John Hawkins sailed 
on his diabolical errand of buying slaves in Africa and selling them 
in the West Indies in a ship which bore the sacred name of Jesus; 
while Elizabeth, the Protestant Queen, rewarded him for his success 
in this first adventure of Englishmen in that inhuman traffic by 
allowing him to wear as his crest 'a demi-Moor in his proper colour, 
bound with a cord, or, in other words, a manacled negro slave.'â
��Conquests of the Cross (quoted from the Agnostic Journal). "
> 
>   (p. 42)
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   And now we have no slavery or have we?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:44 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   True, however go sit under a tree then and reach for Nirvana...
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:38 PM
> 
>   Dear friends and Martin
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Martin wrote:
> 
>   "Seeking Truth is Acting: making karma!"
> 
>   "Read the Mahatma letters, they have a sense of humor"...
> 
>   My answer:
> 
>   That is not theosophical teaching.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:25 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Seeking Truth is Acting: making karma!
> 
>   So use your Intuition and go read this book on Sai Blabla and 
find out for yourself the world is full of PROCLAIMED MASTERS, 
MAHATMA'S AND THELIKE. They forgot to stay humble and also be among 
the least humans to carry their burden a bit as far as karma 
allowed...Read the Mahatma letters, they have a sense of humor but 
also a very narcistic view on who these Mahatma's are, their White 
Brotherhood and how wonderfull they all are...but I do thank KH for 
restoring my Teeth, when I swallowed his papers...
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:18 PM
> 
>   Dear friends and Martin
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   I am sad to hear this from you Martin.
> 
>   It was you who called Sathya Sai Baba a "fake" and not I.
> 
>   I have only sought the truth. What can I do to be of service and 
what have I done wrong?
> 
>   Atma is within you.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:10 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   I do not have anything to proof to you Morten, nor to any1 else.
> 
>   I only have to prove Life to myself.
> 
>   So go troll some1 else....
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:05 PM
> 
>   And where are the proofs?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:41 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Sai Blabla speaks on Jesus
> 
>   ISBN: 90-902-0360- 5
> 
>   Compiler Luc Courtois
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:16 AM
> 
>   Dear friends and Martin
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Sorry if I sound a bit confused, because was it not you who 
sought to use words by Sathya Sai Baba on Jesus as a proof on that 
Sathya Sai Baba was what you call a "fake"?
> 
>   So far I have only been offered your "feelings" now transformed 
into a "Heart" as a proof on that Sathya Sai Baba was what you call a 
"fake".
> 
>   Please, what was the actual title on that book about Jesus, which 
you say Sathya Sai Baba have written, where you claim to have found 
proof?
> 
>   Yes agreed, there are discrepancies between the theosophical 
teachings given by H. P. Blavatsky and the ones given by Sathya Sai 
Baba with regard to Jesus life and teachings.
> 
>   What I have is for instance the following:
> 
>   1.
> 
>   Jesus was born year 120 bc. in Lydda /Lod says H. P. Blavatsky.
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba have according to a number of devotees and 
authors several times said that he was born year 0 in the december. 
BUT, those saying this are most of the time westerners and not Sathya 
Sai Baba himself. But look in the below links.
> 
>   As far as I remember, one can find a quote on Sathya Sai Baba 
saying:
> 
>   Jesus died on the croos, but resurrected, and really died in 
Kashmir year 115 a.d. and was in fact a promotor of Mahayana Buddhism.
> 
>   What is important is not whether Sathya Sai Baba is worshipped or 
another idol or thought of an Avatar, which you call God, so says the 
man from India. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other Avatars can be used, 
no problem there. It is your actions and deeds or lack of deeds, 
which are important.
> 
>   2. The following I find to be close to the truth, though we can 
discuss, why the events occured:
> 
>   "As stated at the beginning of this article, the first fleeting 
mention of Jesus in the Discourses does not occur until Christmas 
1970. SB was already aged 44. This was a crucial time in the 
development of the Organisation when Western interest was 
accelerating considerably. Subsequent more detailed mentions of Jesus 
by SB came at Christmas 1971, 1972, 1976, 1978, and almost annually 
to date as more and more Westerners flocked to Puttaparthi for 
Christmas."
> 
>   "SB's main emphasis, and his references to Jesus elsewhere, is 
not on Jesus as a full Avatar"
> 
>   "However, in the references that follow, there is a bewildering 
series of discrepancies and inconsistencies regarding the 
participants at the birth of Jesus, His life and travels, His 
statements, and His father's death, and even the date. For much of 
this, as with so many aspects of the Sai Baba story, there is an 
unfortunate lack of documentary evidence. But the facts themselves 
are not so important, since even Christian theologians are endlessly 
arguing about them and there have also been several serious scholarly 
books which attempt to disprove the physical existence of Jesus 
Christ. As far as the credibility of the allegedly omniscient Sai 
Baba is concerned, it is the confusion, the discrepancies and the 
continual variations on themes which are damaging."
> 
>   http://bdsteel. tripod.com/ More/Jesus1. htm
> 
>   Based on my own experiences, Jesus was not a full Avatar, at 
least in the sense that he was only blended with the Avatar principle 
during a certain part of his physical incarnation. If one read H. P. 
Blavatsky carefully, one will find that she also seems to agree on 
this view.
> 
>   Sai Baba says that he was pure without mistakes, and elsewhere he 
says, that Jesus developed during his incarnation, and heard a voice 
guiding him at one time or other.
> 
>   3.
> 
>   "Do not talk ill of any one with contempt, do not think of any 
one as low or mean. Christ
> 
>   declared, "All are One; be alike to everyone." Hating an 
individual, or institution, or a religion is
> 
>   a low act."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 12, p. 72 - edited by N. Kasturi)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume12/ sss12.pdf
> 
>   4.
> 
>   "Jesus was a person whose only joy was in spreading Divine Love, 
offering Divine Love,
> 
>   receiving Divine Love and living on Divine Love.
> 
>   There are various theories about the birth date of Jesus based on 
the 'bright star that appeared at his birth.' It is visible once in 
800 years, it is said. Some say he was born on the fifteenth day of 
September. But, he was born at 3-15 a.m. (early morning) on December 
28, 1980 years ago. It was Sunday. The Star that appeared that day 
appears only once in 800 years. Its appearance had nothing to do with 
the birth of Jesus. There is no rule that, when Divine Energy or 
Divine Incarnation descends on Earth, a star has to appear. That is 
the opinion of devotees only. But, Jesus was himself a 'Star' of 
infinite value, spreading brialliance of infinite dimension. Why 
posit another less brilliant glow?"
> 
>   ...
> 
>   "We are true Christians only when we live according to the 
teachings of Christ and practise them in daily life."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 14, p. 153 - edited by N. Kasturi)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume14/ sss14.pdf
> 
>   But this passage have been edited by N. Kasturi, and perhaps it 
is a mistake.
> 
>   H. P. Blavatsky flatly disagreed upon this view, and her Masters 
as well.
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   5.
> 
>   About smoking:
> 
>   "One bad habit that has taken deep root in this area is the 
smoking of tobacco, an evil that is fast becoming universal. It 
destroys aarogyam, aanandham, uthsaaham (health, happiness, energy) 
and even andham (charm). Smoke will not quench your thirst or fill 
the hungry stomach. It disfigures your face and denigrates your 
lungs. It debilitates you and makes you diseased. Control yourself 
and do not yield to the snares of friends or society or, what is 
miscalled social convention, and become a prey to this and other bad 
habits."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 1, p. 73 eller 87 - edited by N. Kasturi 
or Indulal Shah)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume14/ sss14.pdf
> 
>   At another place in 1994:
> 
>   "Cigarettes have a poison nicotine, which is dangerous and leaves 
marks in the nerves of the body. In addition to nicotine, carbon 
monoxide is also present in the smoke. These spoil the lungs, and 
cause heart diseases and cancer. (Swami shows his white 
handkerchief. ) ...When the lungs, blood vessels and nerves are thus 
affected, it is difficult to control the senses."
> 
>   (Sai News Australia , IV, Spring & Summer 1994, 4 - now 
discontinued)
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   6.
> 
>   This is a good place to search info on what Sathya Sai Baba 
actually said, and not what romours put down his mouth. These books 
are near 100% in accordance to what Sathya Sai Baba said:
> 
>   >>> Sathya Sai Speaks - Searchable Discourses - edited by N. 
Kasturi and Indulal Shah <<<
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search
> 
>   Seeking a more balanced view.
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   There are four types of persons---those who see only right 
everywhere, those who are less spiritual in their vision and so see 
right as right and wrong as wrong, those who shut their eyes to right 
and see only wrong and lastly, the worst of all, those who judge even 
the right to be wrong.
> 
>   Other views?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:46 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Morten,
> 
>   not to be too harsh on you:
> 
>   I could change the word feeling into the word heart, so my heart 
has never betrayed me. Ok with you now?
> 
>   Also, why interested in Jesus? The guy never exsisted as put down 
in the Bible ( or By-ba�¤l ).
> 
>   All religion has but one cause, the reflection of people's minds 
on the effect of Nature in them and around them. That Nature is 
called Love in Harmony, which on Itself is a reflection of Truth 
which is the Mirror-Shield ( or the Middle of the Balance ) of the 
Unknown or Parabrahm or Paramapadatmawa ( beyond the Spirit or Atma ).
> 
>   --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Martin <Mvandertak@ yahoo. com> wrote:
> 
>   From: Martin <Mvandertak@ yahoo. com>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:11 AM
> 
>   Dear Morten:
> 
>   you know nothing about my feeling nor what I mean with 
feeling...so MY feeling is not in discussion, judgement is different 
to prejudice as is richness from Love.
> 
>   Baba wrote a book about Jesus, google will help...
> 
>   --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:15 PM
> 
>   Dear friends and Martin
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Martin wrote:
> 
>   "However when we claim ourselves out in the open being an avatar 
and proof otherwise, it is a lot harder to get back on track. "
> 
>   Agreed.
> 
>   Martin wrote:
> 
>   "And of course there are avatars and Avatars...Avatars of Light 
and of Darkness even...the most difficult to find are those disguised 
as dugpa's, the easiest who are disguised as 'avatars'"
> 
>   Agreed.
> 
>   Martin wrote:
> 
>   "My feeling ( which have never betrayed me )"
> 
>   That is wrong.
> 
>   Feeling always betray anyone who is not an Avatar himsefl or 
herself.
> 
>   You cannot base your judgement on mere "feeling" and no evidence. 
That is bad Wisdom teaching.
> 
>   Can we hear that story about Jesus? 
> 
>   (There are several of them, you know.)
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Martin 
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> 
>   Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:52 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Hi Morten:
> 
>   If we consider ourselves to be only temporary human, we could say 
we are all avatars. As soon as we attach ourselves to being human, we 
become human...then perfect human..buddha. .and again avatar. However 
when we claim ourselves out in the open being an avatar and proof 
otherwise, it is a lot harder to get back on track. And of course 
there are avatars and Avatars...Avatars of Light and of Darkness 
even...the most difficult to find are those disguised as dugpa's, the 
easiest who are disguised as 'avatars'... My feeling ( which have 
never betrayed me ) tells me this Sai Baba is a fake in spite of all 
his nice words ( copied from books ); read his story on Jesus and you 
know this guy is completely gone...
> 
>   --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 8:24 PM
> 
>   Yes. I am aware of this.
> 
>   And I do find it strange, that Sathya Sai Baba, who is naming 
himself an 
> 
>   Avatar of the Age are allowing these accusations to pass, without 
doing more 
> 
>   about it.
> 
>   My problem is, that the India Court have reject any atempts of 
lawsauits 
> 
>   against him so far du to lack of evidence. So as long, as no 
concrete 
> 
>   evidence can be produced, I can hardley agree with just 
supporting romours. 
> 
>   The situation was and is quite different when we talk about C. W. 
> 
>   Leadbeater, and TS Adyar is painfully aware of it!
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   Remember, that Sathya Sai Baba's views on sexuality have clearly 
been told 
> 
>   about by himself on several ocassions.
> 
>   >>> Here are a few words written in the early days <<<
> 
>   "Do not be contented if you give some food for the worldly hunger 
of the 
> 
>   senses. Do not lower your ideals for the sake of cheap fame or 
vulgarise 
> 
>   public taste. Instead of loukika sringaram (worldly enjoyment of 
sex), give 
> 
>   aloukika Aathmaanandham (Bliss of the Self). Contribute to the 
expansion of 
> 
>   love, the purification of motives, the enlargement of sympathy, 
the 
> 
>   tolerance of difference, the respect for individual striving."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. IV, p. 21 - published 1964)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume04/ sss04.pdf
> 
>   "You must be careful about the food you take; for, the jihva 
(tongue) and 
> 
>   the guhya (organ of generation) are the two great foes of man; 
the cravings 
> 
>   of hunger and sex drag you into perdition. Desist from catering 
to the 
> 
>   tongue and its greed; do not be a victim of lust or taste. Have 
pure food 
> 
>   and eat it in company of the pure. Be moderate in food and keep 
the senses 
> 
>   strictly under control."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. V, p. 9 - published 1965)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume05/ sss05.pdf
> 
>   "In this world which is impermanent and ever transforming, the 
Immanent 
> 
>   Power of the Lord is the only permanent and fixed entity. In 
order to 
> 
>   realise the eternal and the true, one has perforce to attach 
oneself to that 
> 
>   Source and Sustenance. There is no escape from this path. It is 
the destiny 
> 
>   of one and all, irrespective of age or scholarship, clime or 
caste, sex or 
> 
>   status."
> 
>   (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. I, p. 22 - published 1956)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume01/ sss01.pdf
> 
>   "The Mahapurushas, the Mahatmas, the Jnanis, the Yogis ... will 
all be 
> 
>   co-operating in the task of re-establishing righteousness and 
clearing the 
> 
>   path for the World-at�­taining Santhi. " (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 
I, p. 29 - 
> 
>   published 1958)
> 
>   http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume01/ sss01.pdf
> 
>   "Before marriage, he is half body. Before marriage, she is half 
body. Lady 
> 
>   is always left side. Right side is gent's. The gent's body is 
always the 
> 
>   right side of the wife. Now you have only one body. In Indian 
philosophy or 
> 
>   custom, this is called ardhangi. (Ardha means half.) Wife before 
marriage is 
> 
>   only ardhangi, half body. Now the left side is joined with the 
right side 
> 
>   and you are full body."
> 
>   (Divine Memories of Sathya Sai Baba)
> 
>   Sai Baba also says:
> 
>   'The real marriage is with God'; 'First man has 2 legs, he gets 
marries and 
> 
>   becomes an animal with 4 legs. They get one child, a six-legged 
scorpion, 
> 
>   then another, an 8-legged cockroach.'
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   Sai Baba's Yoga is of 5 parts - Dharma, Jnana, Karma, Bakthi, and 
Dhyana are 
> 
>   blended into one. Harmoni between head, heart and hands are your 
duty. 
> 
>   Thoughts should be ciltivated in your spiritual Heart, where they 
grow up 
> 
>   and out over the head and spreads to the joy and happiness of the 
whole 
> 
>   world.
> 
>   Yes. - Sure I am concerned. I am not a Sai devotee, because of 
the manner 
> 
>   the SathyaSai organisation is being run. Too much (almost blind) 
bakthi, way 
> 
>   too much to my taste. Yet the most emotional persons among us 
craves 
> 
>   something like that even when it is not what they spiritually 
NEED.
> 
>   And you are saying that none of the romours come from the Jesuits 
or the 
> 
>   Militant Christians in USA? None at all?
> 
>   Yet I also remain a critic of Sathya Sai Baba's acitivties 
regarding his 
> 
>   silences in the years after the romours and accusations. Yet no 
actual proof 
> 
>   has emerged so far, and that we will have to take into account.
> 
>   All those who are a treath to secterian beliefs are a treath to 
the Jesuit 
> 
>   and Dugpa schemes, and they will do all in their power to throw 
these 
> 
>   treaths to pieces.
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   I am just seeking to present a more balanced view upon the issue.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: "Martin" <Mvandertak@ yahoo. com>
> 
>   To: <theos-talk@ yahoogro ups.com>
> 
>   Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 6:39 PM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   http://www.rickross .com/reference/ saibaba/saibaba7 .html
> 
>   --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ 
stofanet. dk> 
> 
>   wrote:
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:31 PM
> 
>   Dear friends and Cass
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Cass wrote:
> 
>   "we shall know them by their fruits is a biblical quote. "
> 
>   My answer:
> 
>   This biblical quote is esoteric teaching for those who knows 
about its 
> 
>   meaning.
> 
>   Blavatsky refers to it in her book The Key to Theosophy.
> 
>   Cass wrote:
> 
>   "I didn't suggest that Krishnamurti outshone Sai Baba - I said 
that 
> 
>   Krishnamurti helped me whereas Sai Baba offers me nothing. His 
teaching is 
> 
>   not even close to Advaita. "
> 
>   My answer:
> 
>   You are dead wrong. And your answer tells me that you have only 
superfiscial 
> 
>   knowledge about Sathya Sai Baba's teachings.
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are much more close to the true 
methaphysical 
> 
>   teachings on Adwaita Vednata and in accordance with H. P. 
Blavatsky's and 
> 
>   her Masters views. - Whereas J. Krishnamurti is not allowing any 
Guru's and 
> 
>   Chela-realtions to exists. Only his on books - whereby he have 
created a 
> 
>   sect of seperatism, opposing the Wisdom teachings of ages past. - 
H. P. 
> 
>   Blavatsky, Ammonius Saccas and Sathya Sai Baba sought and are 
seeking to 
> 
>   unite the wisdom teaching from all religions. J. Krishnamurti' s 
teaching 
> 
>   taken as an overall teaching is an obstacle to this teaching.
> 
>   Cass wrote:
> 
>   "Krishnamurti was a boy playing on a beach when he was spotted by 
> 
>   Leadbeater. I think he was 8 years old, so Leadbeater got a hold 
of him 
> 
>   before his brain was fully developed. "
> 
>   My answer:
> 
>   How can a World Teacher of the Age allow himself to be discovered 
by the 
> 
>   Phaedofile Magician of the Age?
> 
>   There is clearly something wrong here.
> 
>   Cass wrote:
> 
>   "I think he was 8 years old, so Leadbeater got a hold of him 
before his 
> 
>   brain was fully developed. Apparently he was a vacant kind of 
kid. From K's 
> 
>   point of view, Leadbeater was offering a life less poverty 
stricken and no 
> 
>   doubt K's father thought this option would benefit his son. "
> 
>   My answer:
> 
>   So he was "vacant". I bet CWL liked that. And Krishnamurti' s 
father agreed 
> 
>   without any protests?
> 
>   How can a vacant child write a book named "At the Feet of the 
Master", and 
> 
>   publish it a year later in 1910 ? - Was he suddenly transformed 
in the magic 
> 
>   hands of CWL?
> 
>   Try to read the content of this link:
> 
>   1.
> 
>   And that was why J. Krishnamurti' s Father went to court so to 
avoid the 
> 
>   adoption???
> 
>   http://www.questia. com/PM.qst? a=o&d=55090725
> 
>   2.
> 
>   Evolution of Mrs. Besant. Being the life and public activities of 
Mrs. Annie 
> 
>   Besant, secularist, socialist, theosophist and politician. With 
sidelights 
> 
>   on the inner workings of the Theosophical Society and the methods 
by which 
> 
>   Mr. Leadbeater arrived at the threshold of divinity by The Editor 
of 
> 
>   Justice, Madras, 1918.
> 
>   "From Mr. Leadbeater to Mrs. Besant, September 11th., 1906:
> 
>   You know I never for a moment suggested that the Masters dictated 
or 
> 
>   approved such teaching. I should myself simply infer that They 
left me to 
> 
>   make my own discoveries, and presumably therefore did not 
consider that this 
> 
>   one thing out-weighs everything else, as you apparently do now, 
though you 
> 
>   as certainly did not think so when we were together at Benares. 
Both 
> 
>   matrimony and prostitution must obviously be worse, because in 
each case 
> 
>   they involve action upon radically wrong, is it not more probable 
that in 
> 
>   spite of that defect, they were willing to use what was good in 
me, than 
> 
>   that both of us and several other people have been consistently 
and 
> 
>   successfully deluded for many years, especially when you consider 
how much 
> 
>   good came out of the delusion. If we are to suppose the whole 
transaction 
> 
>   carried out by Dark Powers at the cost of infinite trouble, you 
do not see 
> 
>   that the balance of result of that transaction is enormously 
against them? I 
> 
>   suppose it is
> 
>   useless to write, because you have felt a certain line to be your 
duty and 
> 
>   you naturally therefore see everything from that point of view; 
but at least 
> 
>   do not let yourself be persuaded to think that I am still 
carrying on that 
> 
>   line of teaching in spite of you; I yielded my opinion to yours 
at once, but 
> 
>   it does not seem to have made any difference. All through the 
affair, I have 
> 
>   guided my self as far as possible by what I thought you would 
wish. (Italics 
> 
>   ours)
> 
>   (Exhibit Narayaniah Case)"
> 
>   www.phx-ult- lodge.org/ manifesto. htm
> 
>   http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ besantleadbeater lettersfull17. pdf
> 
>   3.
> 
>   "In the Court of the District Judge OF CH1NGLEPUT, 0. S. No. 47 
of 1912, Q. 
> 
>   NARAYANIAH-Plaintif f
> 
>   Versus ANNIE BESANT-Defendant"
> 
>   http://74.125. 77.132/search? q=cache:NrrF7riM QYcJ:krotonaarch 
ives.com/ 
> 
>   Annie_Besant_ Cases_files/ 12.11.06. OS47.Besant_ Statement_ 
only.Vasanta_ 
> 
>   Press.pdf+ Besant+court+ 1912+judge+ Krishnamurti+ filetype: 
pdf&hl=da& 
> 
>   ct=clnk&cd= 3&gl=dk
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   About Sathya Sai Baba, I questions all and everything.
> 
>   What I am referring to is that his teachings have a lot in common 
with 
> 
>   Ammonious Saccas teachings, where he is seeking to promote a 
synthesis of 
> 
>   the wisdom teachings within all the major religions on the 
Planet. B. P. 
> 
>   Blavatsky dis the same. A synthesis of the kernal of the major 
religions 
> 
>   wisdom teahings is important so to end (or at least keep down) 
the strife 
> 
>   and battles on this planet among ignorant and non-compassionate 
fanatics and 
> 
>   bigots. - J. Krishnamurti only created a secterian teachings - 
without 
> 
>   anyone to guide you on how to use cliarvoyance and other powers. 
No Gurus 
> 
>   are allowed. These are important differences
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Cass Silva
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:10 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Morten
> 
>   we shall know them by their fruits is a biblical quote. I didn't 
suggest 
> 
>   that Krishnamurti outshone Sai Baba - I said that Krishnamurti 
helped me 
> 
>   whereas Sai Baba offers me nothing. His teaching is not even 
close to 
> 
>   Advaita. But that is only my opinion - Krishnamurti was a boy 
playing on a 
> 
>   beach when he was spotted by Leadbeater. I think he was 8 years 
old, so 
> 
>   Leadbeater got a hold of him before his brain was fully 
developed. 
> 
>   Apparently he was a vacant kind of kid. From K's point of view, 
Leadbeater 
> 
>   was offering a life less poverty stricken and no doubt K's father 
thought 
> 
>   this option would benefit his son. To lay the blame at K's feet 
is harsh of 
> 
>   you - as soon as he was mature he saw the folly and abandoned it 
for his own 
> 
>   path - and who can blame him for that as it is exactly what HPB 
said - each 
> 
>   man's path is different.
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba, I believe, states that he is the reincarnation 
of the 
> 
>   original Sai Baba with a 10 year gap between the death of Sai 
Baba and the 
> 
>   birth of Sathya Sai Baba. Didn't you question this?
> 
>   Cass
> 
>   ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 4:05:02 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Dear friends and Cass
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   I have a more relaxed attitude. I follow the theosophical view: 
We shall 
> 
>   know them on their fruits and their teachings. (I.e. Not on 
romours and the 
> 
>   like.) The court in India have, when asked, rejected to do 
anything, because 
> 
>   of the lack of evidence.
> 
>   Yet, I entirely agree on being careful about accepting him as an 
Avatar.
> 
>   So why should we find J. Krishnamurti better than Sathya Sai Baba 
in 
> 
>   promoting the Wisdom Teachings of All Ages Past?
> 
>   Remember, that J. Krishnamurti allowed himself to be 
singlehandedly 
> 
>   discovered by a Phaedofile or similar named C. W. Leadbeater.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Cass Silva
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:08 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   No he is not for me Morten - too much controversy around him - 
claims of 
> 
>   sexual abuse too!
> 
>   Cass
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba on November 23, 1926[1][2] - or later than 
1927[3] - with 
> 
>   the family name of "Ratnakaram" ,[4] and is a controversial[ 5] 
South Indian 
> 
>   guru controversially described by his followers as a Godman[1][6] 
and a 
> 
>   miracle worker.[7][8] Several controversies including of 
homosexual abuse 
> 
>   [5], deciet[5] and economic offences[5] surround Sathyanarayana 
Raju. A BBC 
> 
>   Documentary notes that such controversies have persisted for at 
least 30 
> 
>   years [5]. The website of the American Embassy in Delhi, 
referring to Sai 
> 
>   Baba[5], warns Americans visiting Andhra Pradesh of a "noted 
godman" who 
> 
>   reportedly engages in "inappropriate sexual behaviour" with young 
male 
> 
>   devotees.[5]
> 
>   According to the Sathya Sai Organization there are an estimated 
1,200 
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba Centers in 114 countries world-wide.[ 9] The 
number of 
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba adherents is estimated sometimes as around 6 
million, and 
> 
>   followers cite "50 to 100 million."[10] He is considered by his 
followers to 
> 
>   be an avatar and the reincarnation of the saint Sai Baba of 
Shirdi, however 
> 
>   this has been strongly disputed
> 
>   ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Thursday, 15 January, 2009 3:58:59 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Dear friends and Cass
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   Have you read Sathya Sai Baba's books with the SAME emphasis and 
compared 
> 
>   them with J. Krishnamurti' s?
> 
>   Commercials are not always objective. I think we know that.
> 
>   Try this easy one: GUIDE TO INDIAN CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY (Q & 
A's between 
> 
>   Sai Baba and a Seeker).
> 
>   http://sss.vn. ua/guide_ in.htm
> 
>   Here are writings given by Sathya Sai Baba - taken down by a near 
follow 
> 
>   named N. Kasturi.
> 
>   http://www.sssbpt. info
> 
>   A book about the Avatar and the allegations etc etc.
> 
>   "SATHYA SAI BABA AS AVATAR" by Michael James Spurr, 2007, 450 
pages
> 
>   http://ir.canterbur y.ac.nz/bitstrea m/10092/1025/ 1/thesis_ 
fulltext. pdf
> 
>   Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are called Purusothama Yoga 
(Something like - 
> 
>   Karma, Bakhti, Jnana blended all one in one. Or something like 
the heart 
> 
>   path of Adwaita Vedanta.)
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   Those interested will find a disagreement in dead letters between 
Sai Baba 
> 
>   and H. P. Blavatsky on when the Kali Yuga began.
> 
>   One will also find that Sathya Sai Baba's teaching are very 
synthetic in 
> 
>   nature, similar to H. P. Blavatsky's. Whereas J. Krishnamurti' s 
was only a 
> 
>   pseudo-Adwaita teaching where he almost always referred to 
himself and never 
> 
>   to the sages and Avatars of the ancient times. And almost never 
comparing 
> 
>   his words with others. No chela teachings like HPB and Sathya Sai 
Baba are 
> 
>   in agreement about.
> 
>   And when you read H. P. Blavatsky's book a Key to Theosophy you 
will 
> 
>   understand the IMPORTANCE of seeking to promote, the mutual 
essence of the 
> 
>   wisdom teachings from a religions of ancient past and present - 
so to seek 
> 
>   to END all the strifes. And NOT to do like J. Krishnamurti - 
merely creating 
> 
>   his own doctrine and sect, without really relating it to anything 
else but 
> 
>   almost only his own thoughts.
> 
>   But these are my views, and are written so that some of you might 
catch a 
> 
>   glimpse of the true light and not a fanatical one no matter who 
is right or 
> 
>   wrong.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Cass Silva
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:26 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   I can only speak for myself - I gained considerable knowledge 
from 
> 
>   Krishnamurti concerning the ego and how it operates.
> 
>   From Sai Baba all I learnt was the materialism of trinkets
> 
>   Cass
> 
>   ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 3:58:27 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Dear friends and Cass
> 
>   My views are:
> 
>   You wrote:
> 
>   "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a 
Teacher 
> 
>   would come"
> 
>   H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following in her famous book The Secret 
Doctrine 
> 
>   (Volume I + II):
> 
>   "The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of 
the key, and 
> 
>   no more, was given in "ISIS." Much more is explained in these 
volumes. In 
> 
>   those days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work 
was 
> 
>   written, and the disclosure of many things, freely spoken about 
now, was 
> 
>   forbidden. In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, 
and far 
> 
>   better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final 
and 
> 
>   irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-
Vidya; and that, 
> 
>   like the once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all 
religions 
> 
>   and philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages 
forgotten and 
> 
>   lost to men, but is at last found."
> 
>   (H. P. Blavatsky "The Secret Doctrine", vol. 1., ULT-edition, 
Facsimile of 
> 
>   the original edition from 1888 ).
> 
>   - - -
> 
>   Now if J. Krishnamurti fulfilled H. P. Blavatsky's prediction he 
must have 
> 
>   been giving - as Blavatsky said in the above - "final and 
irrefutable proofs 
> 
>   that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like 
the 
> 
>   once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions 
and 
> 
>   philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages 
forgotten and 
> 
>   lost to men, but is at last found."
> 
>   Where were and are those - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" given by 
J. 
> 
>   Krishnamurti?
> 
>   And if Dalai Lama is the hot shot, where were or are his - quoted 
- 
> 
>   "irrefutable proofs"?
> 
>   And C. W. Leadbeater, who only were a clairvoyant for about 16 
years 
> 
>   before he singlehandedly discovered, lo, the Teacher of the AGE - 
and not 
> 
>   the teacher of the decade, - where was his - quoted - 
"irrefutable proofs" 
> 
>   on Gupta Vidya?
> 
>   I conclude there were and are none yet.
> 
>   Whereas - if anyone since 1925 until 2009 - should we said to 
have given 
> 
>   such a proof, it aught to be Sathya Sai Baba despite the many bad 
romours 
> 
>   about him.
> 
>   Is there anyone who disagree with me on this?
> 
>   Although, I am not the one saying that Sathya Sai Baba is the 
Avatar of the 
> 
>   Age, despite he him self are saying that.
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: Cass Silva
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 3:57 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   How would I know?
> 
>   Cass
> 
>   Mr. J.M. Prentice followed, and Dawn is able to reproduce his 
eloquent 
> 
>   address in full. He said: -
> 
>   "In view of the importance of this occasion, in view of the 
importance of 
> 
>   the work we are starting tonight, I want - by way of introduction 
- to refer 
> 
>   to something which I have never hitherto referred to in public: I 
want to 
> 
>   tell you the circumstances in which H.P.B. died. I wish you to go 
back with 
> 
>   me some thirty-two years and picture a room - half bedroom, half 
study, and 
> 
>   see there an old woman, worn out in the work of Humanity, 
diseased and ill, 
> 
>   gasping out her last few life-breaths. And I want you to note 
that as she 
> 
>   dies a wave of despair well-nigh engulfs her, despair not for 
herself, but 
> 
>   for the movement to which she has devoted her life. See her 
seated in a 
> 
>   great arm-chair, and hear the last words which she whispers ere 
she dies: 
> 
>   "Tell Annie to keep the link unbroken." That was the link with 
the Great 
> 
>   Powers which were behind the Society and the White Lodge which 
was 
> 
>   responsible for bringing it into
> 
>   existence. I want to tell you something of the happenings in the 
years 
> 
>   that have followed since then, and how Annie, who is, of course, 
Mrs. 
> 
>   Besant, has acted in regard to keeping the link unbroken. It is a 
sad story. 
> 
>   It is the story of one who failed to reach the level of greatness 
indicated 
> 
>   for her, who failed so utterly as to make H.P.B.'s despair 
understandable 
> 
>   now.
> 
>   "Within two years of Blavatsky's death the lust for power that 
has been 
> 
>   such a feature of Mrs. Besant's career manifested itself, and 
that dominant 
> 
>   pride of personality that H.P.B. had so severely rebuked, had 
shown itself. 
> 
>   In 1892 (3-4), there was - what shall I call it? - a conflict 
between two of 
> 
>   the personalities that were left in charge of the movement, and 
the result 
> 
>   of the clash was the ruinous experience known as the Judge 
secession in 
> 
>   1895. There is little profit in reviewing all the details, but I 
want to say 
> 
>   this: it was largely the result of Annie Besant's work, of her 
failure to 
> 
>   understand the principles of universal brotherhood, that the 
movement was 
> 
>   well-nigh wrecked then. That section of the movement which 
followed Mr. 
> 
>   Judge in 1895 passed, after his death in 1896, into the hands of 
Mrs. 
> 
>   Katherine Tingley, who is still the leader of a comparatively 
small section 
> 
>   of the Theosophical Society, and who is doing good work.
> 
>   She has devoted herself to the cause of Universal Brotherhood and 
world 
> 
>   peace, and we recognize the value of the work she has done in 
America, 
> 
>   Holland, and the Scandinavian countries; but she again, because 
of this 
> 
>   terrific lust for power, was not able to control even that 
portion of the 
> 
>   movement which came under her control, so there was a further 
split, and 
> 
>   that movement, that second secession, is now known as The United 
Lodge of 
> 
>   Theosophists, which in turn is doing a splendid work, more 
especially in 
> 
>   republishing Blavatsky's books exactly as she wrote them, and not 
as they 
> 
>   have been re-edited since.
> 
>   "The years that followed the Judge secession were marked by the 
> 
>   introduction of Neo-Theosophy. Slowly there emerges the sinister 
figure of 
> 
>   an old friend - C.W. Leadbeater. He
> 
>   represents all that is worst in the whole movement. In 1906, and 
right on 
> 
>   until 1908, there were launched round him a series of scandals 
that are so 
> 
>   unsavory that I am not going to inflict any of them on you. He 
resigned in 
> 
>   1906, and, as Mr. Gillespie has told you, he went out originally 
with the 
> 
>   unsparing condemnation of Mrs. Besant. However, she very soon 
brought him 
> 
>   back, because she found him necessary in supplying her with all 
the psychic 
> 
>   stuff requisite to the career on which she found herself 
embarked. She was 
> 
>   not able to get all the choice bits of psychic information 
required to feed 
> 
>   the flock of devotees with which she had surrounded herself, so, 
as our 
> 
>   sinister friend had already succeeded in cultivating a world-wide 
impression 
> 
>   that he was the greatest clairvoyant in existence, he was 
recalled to assist 
> 
>   her. Moreover, in connection with the appearance of some 
questionable spooks 
> 
>   that were construed in the Persons of the Masters at the
> 
>   death-bed
> 
>   of the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, Leadbeater had 
performed a 
> 
>   signal service to Mrs. Besant by declaring, from the kindly 
shelter of a 
> 
>   Sicilian villa to which he had retired in the hour of his 
downfall, that 
> 
>   they were genuine. True, he was not there, and knew nothing of 
what had 
> 
>   actually happened; but so cleverly had he worked himself in a 
position of 
> 
>   being the mouthpiece of the Masters, that his testimony was 
sufficient to 
> 
>   swing over many of the doubters, and so, by his help, Mrs. Besant 
had been 
> 
>   elected President.
> 
>   "In 1908 he triumphantly returned to the movement, and very 
shortly we see 
> 
>   the first evidences of a plan which had been slowly maturing in 
his mind - 
> 
>   the first direct evidence of absolute departure from Universal 
Brotherhood, 
> 
>   and the neutrality that goes with it is in the beginnings of the 
"Order of 
> 
>   the Star in the East." I know that we were told, until we were 
sick of 
> 
>   listening to it, that the O.S.E. had no direct or official 
connection with 
> 
>   the Theosophical Society; but it was one of the first fruits of 
> 
>   Neo-Theosophy, it fastened itself on to the movement, and the 
parasitic 
> 
>   growth has drawn its very life therefrom ever since.
> 
>   "In 1911-12 there was another split. If there is anything in the 
world 
> 
>   that Mrs. Besant will not tolerate, it is the possibility of a 
rival. She 
> 
>   saw one in the person of Dr. Rudolph Steiner. It did not take 
long for Mrs. 
> 
>   Besant to inaugurate a plan of campaign. She saw fit to expel the 
whole of 
> 
>   the German Section of 2,500 members. And why? What do you think 
was her 
> 
>   excuse for literally kicking out all these members? Because, she 
said, Dr. 
> 
>   Steiner was giving a presentation of Theosophy which was 
Christian in its 
> 
>   nature, that it would probably be offensive to non-Christian 
members in 
> 
>   other parts of the world. And yet she now does everything she 
possibly can 
> 
>   to foster and enliven the Liberal Catholic Church, another 
parasitic growth 
> 
>   that has caused endless trouble in regard to the free-running 
life of the 
> 
>   Society. The Liberal Catholic Church is much more likely to 
offend 
> 
>   non-Christian Theosophists than ever was Dr. Steiner's 
presentation
> 
>   of Theosophy. Indeed, it has offended many of us who were 
nominally 
> 
>   Christian Theosophists - Christian by accident of birth, but 
Theosophists by 
> 
>   conviction and long study. This is just a little example of the 
inconstancy 
> 
>   that goes with Neo-Theosophy. And there are dozens of others. The 
chain that 
> 
>   H.P.B. forged by her selfless service to Humanity has been 
broken, not once, 
> 
>   but dozens of times, the chain that linked the world of today 
with all the 
> 
>   splendid workers of the past, and which should have gone on into 
the future 
> 
>   in unbroken splendor, has been broken into fragments because 
"Annie" was 
> 
>   unfaithful to the charge given to her by the dying Blavatsky, and 
had failed 
> 
>   to keep the particular link delivered into her hands unbroken.
> 
>   ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 4:54:46 AM
> 
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   And which of them gace "irrefutable proof of Gupta-Vidya" ?
> 
>   Dalai Lama, J. Krushnamurti, or C. W. Leadbeater?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   From: nhcareyta
> 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 AM
> 
>   Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   Dear Cass
> 
>   If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning
> 
>   a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective,
> 
>   well made and significant.
> 
>   Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and
> 
>   united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting
> 
>   his arrival..." are also significant.
> 
>   As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama
> 
>   first visited the West in Europe.
> 
>   He found "...numerous and united body of people..."
> 
>   and an organisational structure ready for his teachings.
> 
>   Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame
> 
>   Blavatsky's masters' tradition.
> 
>   She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to
> 
>   the West a century earlier.
> 
>   The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light
> 
>   of compassion and non-violence in the world.
> 
>   And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to
> 
>   discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through
> 
>   studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma,
> 
>   despite his tradition's many dogmas.
> 
>   Kind regards
> 
>   Nigel
> 
>   --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...> 
wrote:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a
> 
>   numerous and united body
> 
>   > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He 
will
> 
>   find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready 
for
> 
>   him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> 
>   awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> 
>   Italics added.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same 
thing
> 
>   as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer
> 
>   into teacher?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Cass
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   > No.
> 
>   > You wrote:
> 
>   > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> 
>   Teacher would come"
> 
>   >
> 
>   > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me
> 
>   something else.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > - - -
> 
>   >
> 
>   > And you did not answer my questions.
> 
>   > And I ask myself why.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > M. Sufilight
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   > From: Cass Silva
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles 
we
> 
>   also have mini teachers - if you get my point
> 
>   > Cass
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Dear friends and Cass
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My views are:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Cass wrote:
> 
>   > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> 
>   Teacher would come"
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My answer:
> 
>   > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt 
is
> 
>   made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
> 
>   Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
> 
>   century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
> 
>   spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken 
place.
> 
>   Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their 
agents,
> 
>   and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has
> 
>   been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of our
> 
>   Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it
> 
>   will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when
> 
>   the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general
> 
>   condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and
> 
>   purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a 
large
> 
>   and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse 
will
> 
>   find a numerous and united body
> 
>   > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He 
will
> 
>   find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready 
for
> 
>   him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> 
>   awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> 
>   Italics added.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My answer:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > 1.
> 
>   > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s)
> 
>   arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W. 
Leadbeater to
> 
>   promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the 
flesh
> 
>   as something theosophical.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > 2.
> 
>   > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than
> 
>   predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within
> 
>   your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her
> 
>   Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would 
come?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary spiritual
> 
>   teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an
> 
>   elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries 
Shah's
> 
>   teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons 
behind
> 
>   the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > 3.
> 
>   > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be 
NEW?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > 4.
> 
>   > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W. 
Leadbeater
> 
>   and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find 
themselves
> 
>   believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered
> 
>   SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out of
> 
>   the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by
> 
>   himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was
> 
>   admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of
> 
>   honest theosophists to resign?
> 
>   > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical 
TRUTH
> 
>   and COMPASSION?
> 
>   > I call it a disgrace!
> 
>   >
> 
>   > 5.
> 
>   > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able to
> 
>   predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > M. Sufilight
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   > From: Cass Silva
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new
> 
>   World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should 
have
> 
>   known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe
> 
>   Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
> 
>   come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a World
> 
>   Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode
> 
>   confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that 
such
> 
>   a World Teacher would not have required any education from those
> 
>   lesser evolved.
> 
>   > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the
> 
>   bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the
> 
>   world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon
> 
>   everything that supported the second christ claim.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Cass
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> 
>   > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > M. Sufilight
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   > From: Cass Silva
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> 
>   > Cass
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
>   > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> 
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Dear Pedro and friends
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My views are:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Pedro asked:
> 
>   > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice 
given
> 
>   to
> 
>   > those interested to attend?"
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My answer and questions:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why 
not
> 
>   just simply avoid selling them?
> 
>   > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the 
Law
> 
>   of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell
> 
>   these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They 
are -
> 
>   perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside 
the
> 
>   books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other 
misleading
> 
>   teachings.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any
> 
>   beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say:
> 
>   > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the 
best
> 
>   theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a 
good
> 
>   and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to 
ask
> 
>   you: What planet do you come from?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Pedro asked:
> 
>   > "As a matter of fact, why stop at
> 
>   > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> 
>   > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> 
>   >
> 
>   > My answer and question:
> 
>   > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the 
face
> 
>   of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a
> 
>   disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly 
spake
> 
>   out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not 
selling
> 
>   all kind of books.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing 
the
> 
>   theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct and
> 
>   the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out 
of
> 
>   the Society.
> 
>   > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong in
> 
>   their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to 
the TS
> 
>   teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe 
other
> 
>   authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to 
damage
> 
>   the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think 
the
> 
>   Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and 
everything.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading 
Hargrave
> 
>   Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries
> 
>   (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. W.
> 
>   Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> 
>   >
> 
>   > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> 
>   > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM 
TEACHINGS
> 
>   of ALL AGES PAST.
> 
>   > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to 
take
> 
>   full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to 
it?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > - - -
> 
>   > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey promotes
> 
>   the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the 
use
> 
>   of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> 
>   > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the
> 
>   following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in 
imposing
> 
>   > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a
> 
>   doctrine
> 
>   > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu
> 
>   Esotericism
> 
>   > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> 
>   > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these 
dogmas
> 
>   > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against 
HERETICS
> 
>   > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> 
>   > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in 
favor of
> 
>   > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great 
Principle,
> 
>   > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> 
>   > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone 
prevents
> 
>   > them having any point in common with the disciples of the 
Archaic
> 
>   > Wisdom. . . . [374]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> 
>   > Flesh. . . .[390]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > - - -
> 
>   >
> 
>   > C.W. XII, p. 501-
> 
>   >
> 
>   > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of 
Father
> 
>   and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its faculties,
> 
>   its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop the
> 
>   inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and
> 
>   Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations 
are
> 
>   theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped or
> 
>   hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through the
> 
>   intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of 
the
> 
>   line without affecting those who stand firm through the 
sympathetic
> 
>   tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them and
> 
>   their Teacher.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his 
soul
> 
>   to the point where desertion first presents itself before his 
mind's
> 
>   eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who
> 
>   stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be burnt
> 
>   out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he 
who
> 
>   throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the 
debasement
> 
>   of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the 
disciples
> 
>   to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish 
them
> 
>   with the life-stream of Truth.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they 
belong
> 
>   to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the
> 
>   body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury."
> 
>   >
> 
>   > (From the Letter of a Master.)
> 
>   >
> 
>   > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of 
their
> 
>   body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as
> 
>   representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ----------
> 
>   > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear 
love
> 
>   to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one
> 
>   Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in 
Voice
> 
>   of the Silence, p. 49.)
> 
>   > ----------
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Page 503
> 
>   >
> 
>   > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their
> 
>   spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: -
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body 
may
> 
>   have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor 
honours
> 
>   himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who
> 
>   giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his
> 
>   well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> 
>   >
> 
>   > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/
y1890_
> 
>   052.htm
> 
>   >
> 
>   > M. Sufilight
> 
>   >
> 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
>   > From: Pedro Oliveira
> 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> 
>   > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> 
>   > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
<global-
> 
>   > theosophy@ .> wrote:
> 
>   >
> 
>   > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by 
C.
> 
>   > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice 
given to
> 
>   > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at
> 
>   > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> 
>   > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below,
> 
>   > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book 
whose
> 
>   > sale may not be allowed to go on?
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan
> 
>   > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> 
>   > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national
> 
>   features
> 
>   > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the 
Jews to
> 
>   > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had
> 
>   made
> 
>   > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity,
> 
>   self-
> 
>   > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall 
be as
> 
>   > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better 
image
> 
>   > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as
> 
>   > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> 
>   >
> 
>   > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss of
> 
>   the
> 
>   > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a 
day
> 
>   > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But 
now
> 
>   > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the
> 
>   > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and
> 
>   > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo
> 
>   > JudÃ?Æ'Ã?¦us shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred
> 
>   Writings,
> 
>   > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to 
hate
> 
>   > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal 
or
> 
>   > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be
> 
>   followed
> 
>   > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand 
symbols
> 
>   of
> 
>   > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the
> 
>   > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, 
the
> 
>   > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in 
the
> 
>   > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and
> 
>   > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the 
most
> 
>   > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity and
> 
>   > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> 
>   >
> 
>   > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people 
the
> 
>   > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this 
has
> 
>   > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for
> 
>   those
> 
>   > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Pedro
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
inbox.
> 
>   Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
inbox.
> 
>   Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
inbox.
> 
>   Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   >
> 
>   > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
> 
>   inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> 
>   >
> 
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> 
>   >
> 
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> 
>   Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter 
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> 
>   look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
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