Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00449)

That is a lesson I will gladly NOT learn.
 
Chuck the Heretic (who plans to live forever or die trying)
 
 
In a message dated 4/29/2009 12:07:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mkr777@gmail.com writes:

 
 


When leaders keep going on even after committing serious errors as  if
nothing has happened, what else is the solution.

Let us get a  Theosophist from Japan as our leader. He would teach all of us
how to deal  with failures.

MKR

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:45 PM, <_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ 
(mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >  wrote:

>
>
> Mr. RAMADOSS! I'm shocked!
>
>  And laughing my head off.
>
> No, I don't know anyone that can  teach them harakiri, for which fact we
> must all be grateful or I might  be tempted...
>
> I think all this is an interesting lesson in  what happens to people when
> they want to be important.
>
>  Chuck the Heretic
>
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2009 5:59:43  P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> _mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com)   <mkr777%40gmail.mkr> 
writes:
>
> Hi All
> Thanks  for the response, Katinka.
>
> As for theos-talk, all I have been  doing is posting messages to the best 
of
> my ability. (Some may call it  monologue; so be it!!!) Theos-talk is the
> only
> forum that we  have to deal with the administrative issues. There is no
> other
>  way to distribute information and opinions and objections on issues  and
> developments, since from time to time there is a conflict of  interests
> between the leadership and the members and the organization  and the 
Cause.
> Other than our time, it is free to post msgs  here.
>
> As I had already mentioned earlier, Katinka has done a  wonderful job in 
the
> cyberspace at this young age. We all should be  thankful to her for what 
she
> has done. We can expect much more in the  future, since the future medium 
of
> action is cyberspace. (Are leaders  listening?)
>
> Only few of us, by Karma, are positioned to take  up theosophical work
> full-time. I am recalling the incident regarding  Helen Zahara, years ago.
> She was trained as Chartered Accountant and  was keen on working full-time
> for TS. CJ who was President at that  time, told her that TS does not have
> funds to pay her compensation she  can command in business. Hence, he told
> her to go out and work in the  business and after having saved enough, 
come
> back to TS and work  full-time. She followed his advise. As her Karma
> decided, she died  couple of years after she started working full time for
> TS
> and  she was still young and was in prime of her life. I expect that in
>  Katinkaâs future, there would come a time when she is financially
>  self-sufficient that she can work full time for TS.
>
> Coming to  TS events since early last year. Many leaders around the world
> have  taken some missteps. We all make mistakes. What is more important 
is t
>  o
> quickly recognize the mistakes early and acknowledge the mistakes  and 
move
> to fix them quickly. It needs a lot of wisdom and courage to  identify the
> mistakes and own them and apologize for the mistakes. We  can take a 
lesson
> from the Japanese. We have seen many leaders,  publicly acknowledge 
mistakes
> and even kill themselves (Harakiri! We  can find some swords if needed 
from
> our Japanese friends!). Chuck, do  you know some sources? (Just kidding) I
> am not suggesting our leaders  should kill themselves for their mistakes.
>
> Once the errors and  mistakes are recognized and aggressive steps taken to
> fix them,  membership is usually generous and forgiving. When this is not
> done,  the average member sees the hypocrisy and the reputation of leader
>  and
> membersâ trust in the leaders take a downfall drip drip and  drip.
>
> One of the most unique things about TS is the total  autonomy of the 
lodges
> and the sections in their activities. For  example, when I lived in India,
> if
> you ask the lodge members  who the National Secretary is, 9 out of 10 
would
> not know. This is  because there is practically no interference from the
>  top.
>
> This autonomous setup allows each lodge and section to  come up with their
> own activities using the local ingenuity to fit  into local culture and
> societal needs. While much noise was created  last year about the rules 
and
> regulations and hair splitting went on,  rules and regulations have no
> effect
> on how dynamic a lodge or  a section is. Rules do not bring in members or
> retain them. It is the  activities, that does.
>
> Again, I think at our lodge and section  levels, we need to brainstorm and
> come up with some creative  activities which would draw the attention of 
the
> world around them. If  anyone thinks I am wrong, I want to hear from them.
>
>  MKR
>
> THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
>
> On  Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Katinka Hesselink <
>  _mail@katinkahessel  _mail@katink_mail@katinkahesselimail@k_ 
(mailto:mail@katinkahesselink.net) <mail%40katinkahessmail%40ka>
>  > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
>  >
> > MKR - did you miss the wink I'd put in there ;) ? But  seriously, I do
> think
> > you have place of informal  leadership here on theos-talk at least. And
> I've
> >  personally learned a lot from you.
> >
> > My name does seem  to be mentioned a lot in regard to leadership roles -
> but
> >  there is a very good practical reason why it's not my time: I can't
>  afford
> > to put my life on hold for full time volunteer work right  now, nor in 
the
> > foreseeable future. There is a very practical  reason why our leaders 
are
> > mostly retired: how else can they do  the work? Unless there's a working
> > partner of course with a very  good income.
> >
> > As for Betty - I think it's pretty  clear to most observers that she's
> made
> > some serious  mistakes.
> >
> > I don't think though that a formal  investigation would help. Individual
> > sections just need to get on  with the work of getting in touch with the
> > world of spirituality  & responding to the main challenges of our time.
> And
> >  to some extent they are doing so. The TSA has founded an active online
>  forum
> > & had great brainstorm sessions apparently at Krotona.  The next step of
> > course is to put all that into action locally as  well as online.
> >
> > Activities have to be rethought very  seriously - how can a balance be
> found
> > between serious  theosophical lectures and programs that fit the general
> >  spiritually interested public we'd also like to attract? What themes  
are
> we
> > not addressing at all, despite the fact that they  belong to the central
> > topics theosophists study and think about?  And so on.
> >
> > En Martin: dat liedje hoor ik al mijn  hele leven :)
> >
> > Katinka
> > __http://www.allconsihttp://www.h_ (http://www.allconsihttp://www._)   
(_http://www.allconsihttp://www._ (http://www.allconsidering.com/) )
>  > __http://www.katinkahhttp://www.kat_ 
(http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp_)   (_http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp_ (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/) )
>  > __http://www.overpeinhttp://www_ (http://www.overpeinhttp://ww_)   
(_http://www.overpeinhttp://ww_ (http://www.overpeinzende.nl/) )
>  >
> > --- In _theos-talk@ --- In _theos --- In 
_th_theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>)
>
>  <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>, Martin
> >  <Mvandertak@Mva> wrote:
> > >
> > > I  agree, Katinka for president!
> > >
> > > ( Kleine  kokette Katinka
> > > Kijk nou eens een keertje om
> >  > Stiekempjes over je schouder
> > > Je ma ziet het toch niet  dus kom
> > > Kleine kokette Katinka
> > > Ben je  verlegen misschien
> > > We willen zo graag nog heel even
>  > > Een glimp van je wipneusje zien )
> > >
> >  > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
> > >  From: MKR <mkr777@...>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:  ??? MORAL LEADERSHIP ??? online
> > communication
> > >  To: _theos-talk@  To: _theo  To: _t_theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>)
>
>  <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>
>
> > >  Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 2:53 PM
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I  have to strongly disagree, being mentioned along with Joy and 
John. I
>  > am
> > >
> > > too far away from that high  level.
> > >
> > > I am simply a messenger and an  ordinary member. (Never held any
> position
> > in
> >  >
> > > TS admin and nor planning to.) My only contribution is  to post some
> > messages
> > >
> > > on  theos-talk. I would say Katinka should be included in the list 
since
>  > she
> > >
> > > has contributed a lot in  cyberspace over the years giving a good
> feedback
> >  on
> > >
> > > the various issues and providing  valuable reference material.
> > >
> > > MKR
>  > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr  27, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Katinka Hesselink <
> > >
> >  > mail@katinkahesseli nk.net> wrote:
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > > > There's formal leadership  (Radha, Betty, Kim Dieu) and informal
> > leadership
> >  >
> > > > (Joy Mills, John Algeo, MKR ;) ). When leadership  fails people look
> to
> > the
> > >
> >  > > informal leaders. If they don't choose to step in, that's  their
> > prerogative.
> > >
> > >
>  > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
> > >
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> > >
> > >  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions  of this message have been removed]
>
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>  
>

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