Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00337)

Dear Adelasie

Thank you again for your comments and apologies for the 
length of time to answer. Currently my workload is particularly
heavy.

You write, "Reading another post from you I realize we have 
a similar concern. I often think, when I am writing to the list,
that my words are going to be read by people who are just 
contacting Theosophy through this venue, or others who are 
new and possibly not thoroughly acquainted with the study of 
the ancient wisdom. I think those of us who have the privilege 
of more practice in this study have a big responsibilithy to get 
our egos out of the way and try to represent what we study in 
what we write, as simply and honestly as we can. It is definitely 
true, in my experience, that we are all students, and often we 
take turns being students and teachers to each other."

Agree with all the above.

You write, "Practical occultism" is indeed my emphasis in the study 
of theosophy also. The ancient wisdom as it penetrates my 
consciousness provides an index of understanding of life's 
phenomena and of one's possible reactions thereto. It illuminates 
for instance the choices available with the light of an examination 
according to what we feel is important. Any phenomenon can be 
held up to the measuring stick of one of the basic principles, such 
as unity, honesty, loyalty, etc. and analyzed as it corresponds, 
or not. Theosophy is a living entity, developing as humanity 
develops consciuosness of it.

Also agree with all the above.

You write, "What is the Light? In the context of this discussion, 
the Light represents the eternal verities, the foundation stones 
of the Temple of Truth, that which each human being recognizes 
in his inner most being to be true and right and beautiful."

Yes, and what is beauty? If we associate it, as we have in previous 
discussions, with that which is "right", rather than superficial
appearance, perhaps we then need to determine what we mean 
by right?  

If we address the issue of "right" you write, "In our daily lives we are
presented with choice after choice. Shall I tell a lie? Shall I steal? 
Shall I betray? Shall I judge?

Once again, and with respect, these words may need to be
clarified. As they stand prima facie, they are open to different
interpretation, dependent on circumstance and context.

For example; "Shall I lie?" Yes indeed, if the truth will
cause pain and suffering that is not necessary as in the case of
a "white" lie. I am sure you understand this so will take it no
further in this instance.
Morever, would I lie to protect the life of an innocent other? 
And would this then be "lying?"

"Shall I steal?" Yes indeed, if your family is starving and the 
circumstances are such that you have no other option.
But is this then "stealing" or the duty to survive and provide? 

"Shall I betray?" Sometimes, in certain circumstances
this may be necessary. For example, a young person may
confide in me that they are going to self-harm, perhaps
even suicide. It would be entirely appropriate for me to betray 
their trust and notify parents and/or authorities.
Some parents are faced with this ethical dilemma when
considering reading their child's confidential journal, where
the child is displaying worrying behaviour. 

"Shall I judge?" This is perhaps a little less problematic,
as by judge I presume you mean to condemn another. 
To judge for the purposes of discernment however is of course 
necessary in countless situations.

I am sure you will have considered all of the above, and I don't
wish to appear pedantic, but it does highlight the fact that we need
to be careful when overtly generalising certain words.
Perhaps they must be used only in the context of each situation.  
    
You write, "Over and over we have a choice and if we choose 
according to the priciples of Truth, Honesty, Loyalty, Compassion, 
we are staying within the Light."

Without repeating the previous exercise, it is interesting to 
examine these words in various settings.
I would add to your list the word harmony, albeit in a certain context. 
Taking your words as you and I might otherwise have a reasonably
common understanding, harmony would seem to be the result of 
these qualities?

However, what is harmony? And here we are getting closer to 
some of our earlier discussions.

>From my perspective, capital H Harmony is that which is concerned
with Principles of the Whole, rather than necessarily any particular 
individual situation or circumstance. Peoples' emotional reactions 
must also come second in most situations requiring discernment, 
as most feelings are caught up in self interest. 
For instance, there were a number of occasions in my local 
Theosophical branch where a few people were deliberately lying 
about a number of very serious matters. I and another chose to 
challenge and expose these behaviours and were generally 
condemned for disrupting the "harmony" of the branch. The matters 
were largely ignored leaving considerable injustices in their wake. 
>From my perspective, the primary principles of concern were truth 
and justice, particularly for those aggrieved, and not for the 
emotional difficulties which may have, and did, arise. 
Genuine Harmony does not always equate to emotional comfort, 
in fact the desire for that can be our biggest trap.  

You write, "Our choice to walk within the Light or within the shadow 
is simply whether to choose according to our own inner knowledge
 of right and wrong, or to ignore it. The consequence of the former 
will benefit the whole human race, the whole universe. The 
consequences of the latter bring destruction pain and suffering to
all. Which should we choose?"

Once again, prima facie this statement appears entirely reasonable.
However, as alluded above, that which we assume to be "right" 
may only be a matter of perspective, dependent on the particular
situation?

Very kind regards
Nigel 


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "adelasie" <adelasie@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Nigel,
> 
> Reading another post from you I realize we have a similar concern. I 
> often think, when I am writing to the list, that my words are going 
> to be read by people who are just contacting Theosophy through this 
> venue, or others who are new and possibly not thoroughly acquainted 
> with the study of the ancient wisdom. I think those of us who have 
> the privilege of more practice in this study have a big 
> responsibilithy to get our egos out of the way and try to represent 
> what we study in what we write, as simply and honestly as we can. It 
> is definitely true, in my experience, that we are all students, and 
> often we take turns being students and teachers to each other. 
> 
> "Practical occultism" is indeed my emphasis in the study of theosophy 
> also. The ancient wisdom as it penetrates my consciousness provides 
> an index of understanding of life's phenomena and of one's possible 
> reactions thereto. It illuminates for instance the choices available 
> with the light of an examination according to what we feel is 
> important. Any phenomenon can be held up to the measuring stick of 
> one of the basic principles, such as unity, honesty, loyalty, etc. 
> and analyzed as it corresponds, or not. Theosophy is a living entity, 
> developing as humanity develops consciuosness of it. 
> 
> What is the Light? In the context of this discussion, the Light 
> represents the eternal verities, the foundation stones of the Temple 
> of Truth, that which each human being recognizes in his inner most 
> being to be true and right and beautiful. In our daily lives we are 
> presented with choice after choice. Shall I tell a lie? Shall I 
> steal? Shall I betray? Shall I judge? Over and over we have a choice 
> and if we choose according to the priciples of Truth, Honesty, 
> Loyalty, Compassion, we are staying within the Light. We all know 
> deep within our hearts what is right. All we have to do is ask one 
> question. "What would I want another to do if I were him?" The Golden 
> Rule in action. Our choice to walk within the Light or within the 
> shadow is simply whether to choose according to our own inner 
> knowledge of right and wrong, or to ignore it. The consequence of the 
> former will benefit the whole human race, the whole universe. The 
> consequences of the latter bring destruction pain and suffering to 
> all. Which should we choose?
> 
> What would you say about all this?
> 
> Adelasie
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> On 6 Mar 2009 at 7:48, nhcareyta wrote:
> 
> Dear Adelasie,
> 
> Thank you as usual for your answers.
> 
> You write, "You ask some very pertinent and probing questions
> which I will attempt to respond to. Keep in mind I am no authority..."
> 
> I would suggest none of us are Adelasie. I would also suggest that
> the operations of the Kosmos are infinitely more profound than the
> human mind can possibly conceive. For this reason among many,
> perhaps we are all students, struggling with our limited and limiting
> minds and egos.
> 
> My emphasis through study is to consider, and wherever possible
> understand the teachings practically, ie. how might they, and can 
> they, apply to the experiential life.
> 
> For the purpose of this dialogue I would like to address the
> current points with particular reference to your rhetorical question, 
> "Why not then stay within the Light...."
> 
> I sense this might be a familiar theme for you and I, which makes its
> investigation all the more interesting to me.
> 
> May I ask, what is your understanding of, and what exactly do you 
> mean by "the Light?"
> 
> Kind regards
> Nigel
>