Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00043)

Dear Anand,

I don't know what the ES pledge for Adyar is today.  I was talking of a speculative new ES where there is no pledge taken.  Instead, the pledge we have been talking about as shown in Blavatsky Archives becomes moral guidelines for the ES member, and we could take out the clause "and in particular to obey, without cavil or delay, the orders of the Head of the Esoteric Section in all that concerns my relation with the Theosophical movement."  There would be no pledge to the higher self unless someone takes it upon themselves to do it in secret.

I don't know what the current pledge is.  I think our discussion has touched on the dangers of making pledges, especially to that of following others.  Those that want to can read between the lines and figure out for themselves whether they want to take the current ES pledge.

Again, we only fail if we stop trying and give into our lower natures, this is the failure that I was referring to.

Certainly if it was agreed that a separate ES would be a useful thing to have, then probably rule 1 of such an organization is that all members are to follow their moral conscience as regards to political matters, that they are not to be beholden to anything an ES officer coucils regarding political matters, nor should an ES officer ever give council regarding political matters.

It may be that we will not agree that an ES could have a role in the TS.  As our talk is merely theoretical, I suspect neither of our visions for a new and revitalized TS will be put into practice.  Organizations have a terrible habit of falling into decay and death, rather than doing the hard work of revitalizing themselves.

Robert Bruce

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robert_b_macd" <robert.b.macdonald@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Dear Anand,
> > 
> > I missed answering one question that you had.  You asked where the higher self comes into this pledge.  The pledge is ended with the words "So Help Me, My Higher Self."  The Higher Self is made witness to the pledge, and occult forces from your Higher Self are activated and cannot be put back to sleep until you either succeed or fail on your journey over however many lifetimes it takes.  It is a serious pledge.
> > 
> 
> Jerry told that ES members under Mrs. Radha make a pledge to follow Mrs. Radha. Words used in current pledge are not the Outer Head or Masters. Does that mean their souls will be following Mrs. Radha for many lifetimes?
> 
> You wrote:
> "The Higher Self is made witness to the pledge, and occult forces from your Higher Self are activated and cannot be put back to sleep until you either succeed or fail on your journey over however many lifetimes it takes." 
> How can a person "either succeed or fail(permanently)", when he would be trying again if he fails?
> 
> You wrote:
> > Regardless, as I do not see a binding pledge as being necessary for a reformed ES, the second part of this clause could be done away with, and the pledge would be left as a set of moral guidelines.
> > 
> 
> You don't need separate ES organization for taking such a pledge. One can sign the pledge of following moral guidelines, keep it with himself or send it to the HQ and they will file it. May be it is better to keep secrecy regarding who made such a pledge.
> Divisions get created in TS when you form a separate Esoteric Section. Politics and other evils enter due to creation of such separate Section.
> Best
> Anand Gholap
>