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Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual

Jul 11, 2009 05:29 PM
by Martin


Good answer, how about Will then? The causeless Will?
Nature rules in my opinion, so there is a Will...and we can join in it...

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Drpsionic@aol.com <Drpsionic@aol.com> wrote:

From: Drpsionic@aol.com <Drpsionic@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 11:40 PM

Free will is an illusion of Maya.
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 7/11/2009 4:23:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
Mvandertak@yahoo.com writes:

 
 


So you force nature to work on them? No free will/choice?

--- On  Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >  wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >
Subject:  Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Date:  Saturday, July 11, 2009, 9:50 PM

Through Extra Sensory  Perception.
Thoughts are after all not dependant on physical  activities.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Martin  
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re:  Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual

How are you ever  gonna teach them anything then?

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten  Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >  wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:04 PM

The same as the fact that  talking or writing is performed on a lower level 
than thinking.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Martin 
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual

So people are healing the lepers in their heads then? Whats wrong with  
being physically present?

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten  Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >  wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 12:04 PM

Chuck  said:
"I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of  teachers as 
identifiable 
agents altogether."

Yes, when they are used as a publicity-stunt.
Idries  Shah has told clearly about it:
_http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp_ 
(http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html) 

The truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are  important. 
Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers are  only 
average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators and nothing  else.
A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how cunning  it is in cheating 
people to believe that throwing money away is a good idea or  that emotional 
excitement is the spiritual highest.

- - -  - - - -

Idries Shah said:
"I believe  that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient 
outlet for his  desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to 
have others  dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru. 

I got all that  out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi 
[theosophical]  tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the 
ones who can  and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not 
yet discovered  this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In 
the East we  believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't 
necessarily the best  one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad 
cookies. "
......
"Their followers need the guru as much as the  guru needs his followers. I 
just don't regard it as a religious operation. I  take a guru to be a sort 
of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people  quiet and polarized 
around him and gives some sort of meaning to their  lives."
......
"Why shouldn't there be room  for what we might call "neighborhood 
psychotherapy" - the community looking  after its own? However, why it should be 
called a spiritual activity rather  baffles me."
.......
"Some are frankly  phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They 
think that I am one, too,  so when we meet they begin the most disturbing 
conversations. They want to  know how I get money, how I control people, and so 
on."
......
"They actually feel there is something wrong with what  they are doing, and 
they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is  doing it. I always 
tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave  up the guru role 
in their own minds and realize that they are providing a  perfectly good 
social service."

- - -
The question is if the above words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or 
other  theosophical groups are greeted with???

M.  Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)  
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)   
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as  usual

Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real  opponent, Stalin would have 
had him for lunch and  Mother Theresa was a ghoul who fed off the energies 
of 
the dying. I don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I  
would want to learn.

I'm  saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable 
 
agents altogether.

Chuck  the Heretic

In a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19  P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
_silva_cass@yahoo.sil_ (mailto:silva_cass@yahoo.com)   writes:

So you are saying that World Teachers are  known by their actions rather 
than their words? If  this is the case one could argue that Gandhi and 
Mother 
Theresa were world teachers.

I suppose one  can walk with world teachers or one can walk behind them. 
A spiritual evolved soul is probably on the way to being his/her own  world 
teacher.

Cass

>
>From: "__Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _ 
(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) ) " 
<__Drpsionic@aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp) _ 
(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) ) >
>To: _theos-talk@To: _theos-talTo: _theos-_theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) )  
>Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 2:48:56 PM
>Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as  usual
>
>
>
>
>
>Ok. The World Teacher thing is fun but the  truth is that Theosophist have 
>been flying the  wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out of Annie 
and 
>the Bishop's hats. 
>
>First, there really has never been an  identifiable person who could be 
>considered a  "World Teacher" who had any serious impact in his lifetime. 
The 
>Buddha was just another local nutcase  and Jesus got himself killed. So 
>this business  about finding out who the next "World Teacher" was going to 
be 
>makes about as much sense as trying to  find out who will be the next 
Michael 
>Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear)  and all the 
fuss 
>over  whether it was Krishnamurti or Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron 
>Hubbard is missing the point.
>
>We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey and  crazy old Ben Creme for the 
>moment.
>
>If there were to be a world  teacher, that individual would not have to 
>appear  in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting in his 
living 
>room, watching reruns of old  game shows on cable, an putting the 
information  
>directly into the minds of the people prepared to  receive it without them 
>even knowing that he  exists or that the information, the ideas as it 
were,  
>came from any source other than their own minds.  The techniques are 
>certainly simple enough.  Anyone can master them in a few days. Which is 
why  the 
>dugpa stuff is so silly. There is nothing  they can do that anyone else 
>cannot do and  probably are.
>
>It is  obvious that the idea of a World Teacher, wandering the earth 
>spreading teaching to the hungry masses is a simple failure  to understand 
how 
>information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into archaic and  
>fundamentally clumsy means of communication,  voice, the written word, 
personal 
>appearance, even video. There is no need for any of that and one  wonders 
>why those called masters of the wisdom,  who frankly do not, in 
retrospect, 
>seem to have been masters of much of anything but falling off their  
flying 
>carpets, would  not have realized that. 
>
>The search is a waste of time and energy. If there really is a world  
>teacher running around loose somewhere, he has no  need to be found, no 
desire to 
>be public. That would just get in the way and be a  distraction.
>
>It is  time to face reality and forget all the nonsense that has been 
>written in the past by people who either did not know what  they were 
talking 
>about  or who had a vested interest in public ignorance.
>
>Chuck the heretic
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