Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an Ongoing Process?
Oct 13, 2009 05:12 PM
by Drpsionic
There is nothing ritualistic about Theosophy.
Chuck the Heretic
www.charlescosimano.com
In a message dated 10/13/2009 10:48:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
schuller@alpheus.org writes:
Dear Preethi,
K indeed had mystical experiences and claimed oneness with life, but I
belief those were temporary experiences. He was not enlightened, though he
came close. If he was enlightened and one with life, as many belief, he would
have incorporated Theosophy, not lashed out against it and would not have
pretended loss of memory, nor would he have secretely bedded the wife of his
manager, nor his offspring aborted. Then some of his statements regarding
his messiah-ship were not very humble but rather self-serving, maybe even
manipulative. He put a guilt-trip on Theosophists by claiming they had
failed him, evenwhile he had failed the Masters. Only by being selective can one
create an image of K as an enlightened world teacher. The alternative is
to be either thouroughly agnostic or explore possible Theosophical
explanations like those given by Geoffrey_ Hodson, Cyrill Scott and David Anrias.
There are some great insights to be found in his teachings, but we have to be
on guard against jumping to unwarranted conclusions regarding his
spiritual and metaphysical status. Dear Preethi, sorry for this cold shower, but I
do not like to see Theosophists helping with the creation of a new
religion, coined Krishnamurtianity, which will be thouroughly anti-esoteric,
anti-ritualistic and anti-gradualistic, or, in short, anti-Theosophical.
Govert
----- Original Message -----
From: preethi muthiah
To:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Dear Morten and Friends
I am wondering what does a person say when he or she merges with the One
Life...when asked the question, who are you?, what does he say? Does he not
say that he is Life...because that is what he is...he and life are not two
but one...he and the Master are not two, but one...so he is the master, he
is life, but that statement of acknowledgement would seem more a humble
statement rather than a messianic one...
Fraternally
Preethi
--- On Tue, 13/10/09, Govert Schuller <_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)
_schuller@alpheus.sch_ (mailto:schuller@alpheus.org) _> wrote:
From: Govert Schuller <_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)
_schuller@alpheus.sch_ (mailto:schuller@alpheus.org) _>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_
(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)
Date: Tuesday, 13 October, 2009, 1:45 AM
Morten, you're quite right.
K's self-perception was as a messiah, but on his own subtle and
contradictory terms.
----- Original Message -----
From: Morten Nymann Olesen
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Dear Preethi and friends
My views are:
HPB said:
"They will not crush the Society, do what they may."
A)
Preethi wrote:
"Krishnaji, never adhered to that concept"..." He refused to be a messiah."
M. Sufilight answers asks:
I disagree.
I can with all of my heart only - clearly disagree - with you on this when
we talk about Krishnaji also known as J. Krishnamurti.
And givning J. Krishnamurti the whole blame, and letting Annie Besant go
scott free, will not wash, and aught not to be endorsed by any leadership in
TS Adyar. The truth is that Annie Besant - clearly failed - in this
regard, and promoted an emotional _cult with yellow shawls, purples shawls,
silver bagdes and ribbons, with J.K. insignias. And the TS and the theosophical
cause have been hampered by this for decades. Not to mention her involvment
with C.W. Leadbeater.
T.S. Adyar aught to recognize these heavy blunders and NOT promote Annie
Besant as a great leader!
Can you document your views?
Can you show me that J. Krishnamurti ever rejected his own title as a
World Teacher and Messiah, and Messiah-craze as such?
I have most often found to opposite to be the true about his behaviour.
Will you please answer this question, because it is important to a number of
seekers.
- - - - - - -
I will in opposition to TS Adyar seek to document my views in the below....
Will TS Adyar document their views in a comprative study or stand
corrected?
So far Radha Burnier have only published the following vague remarks on J.
Krishnamurti.
And this with Radha Burnier answering questions has not been verified as
officially true:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.lifeposi_
(http://www.lifeposi/) _ tive.com/ Spirit/new- age-path/ theosophical- society/theosoph
y.asp (Anyone?)
Another different one is here:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _
google.com/ group/alt. paranormal. reincarnation/ browse_thread/
thread/6900a7642 65f5d4b
B)
Geoffrey Hodson (d. 1983) said in an article published in 1965:
"These phenomena occurred during some few successive years, the events
being so
marked that Krishnamurti himself thereafter changed the Objects of the
Order of the
Star in the East from, in effect, âTo prepare for the coming of the Lordâ
to âTo serve
the World Teacher now that He is in our midst.â I, myself, more than once
heard
Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now here and that the â
Comingâ had
actually occurred. Even now when he is speaking, with others I discern a
spiritual
influence emanating from him, as if a great Being were still using him as
a vehicle.
This, however, does not constitute a complete fulfillment of the original
prophecy."
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.theosoph_
(http://www.theosoph/) _ ical.org/ resources/ articles/ AppreciationofCW L.pdf
C)
J. Krishnamurti claimed himself being the Avatar (1928):
*1*
"I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life
itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you
to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life
which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all the paraphernalia of beliefs,
religions and ceremonies, and you will find the Truth."
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://jiddu-_ (http://jiddu-/)
krishnamurti. net/en/1928- let-understandin g-be-the- law/jiddu- krishnamurti-
let-understandin g-be-the- law-07.php
*2*
"Krishnamurti wrote in 1927:
"I know my destiny and my work. I know with certainty and knowledge of my
own, that I am blending
into the consciousness of the one Teacher and that He will completely fill
me."
Letter from Krishnamurti to Leadbeater February 9, 1927, quoted in
Lutyens, Krishnamurti: The
Years of Awakening, p. 241.
*3*
D)
And we have Theosophist Magazine September 1932-December 1932
"I presume the T.S. accepts it as its duty to promulgate Theosophy and not
to spread or air of other philosophies; if the former why does it
undertake propaganda for the teachings of Krishnamurti? If the latter, why call
itself the Theosophical Society? This is sailing under false colours and is
dishonest to humanity. The facts are, that one cannot go to any T.S. Lodge
meeting without hearing about, seeing the books of Krishnamurti. What service
is that to mankind- what s_ervice is rendered to Theosophy? It can only do
one thing and that is to help fog and cloud the student and help to make
his efforts to learn Theosophy a hundred times more difficult. Kirshnamurti
himself is absolutely honest....
In the Star Bulletin August 1931, Page 7 - J. Krishnamurti says:
" So I have made it prefectly clear that what is generally believed by the
Christian, the Theosophist, the Hindu, the Buddhist to be Truth, has
nothing in common with what I say"
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://books._ (http://books./)
google.com/ books?id= Tq8aS-ZDu_ IC&pg=RA2- PA379&lpg= RA2-PA379& dq=%22Star+
Bulletin% 22+1931+Krishnam urti&source= web&ots=StjngNWK 0k&sig=yBGu2frkW
1eUSqpsDYFDftGSK e4#PRA2-PA379, M1
- - -
M. Sufilight asks:
Why did J. Krishnamurti accept creating so many obstacles to the Seekers
after Truth - who were not Seekers after a creed? - And not to talk about
the - appearent - requirements of people being members of the Order of the
Star in the East
if they wanted TS membership. (I cannot find the proper letter by Annie
Besant on this. Maybe some of you can help me out?) No wonder a number of
Seekers broke with the TS back in the old days.
An Avatar - hampering - the promotion of comparative studying, cannot be
said to be in accordance with the wisdom teachings of all ages past and the
original Programe of the TS as it was given by HPB and the Masters.
And please understand that NO Universal Brotherhood can be created from
such a Messiah-craze activity!
E)
J. Krishnamurti' s speech disso_lving The Order of The Star in the East:
"Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path
whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or
to coerce people along any particular path."
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah_
(http://www.katinkah/) esselink. net/kr/star. htm
M. Sufilight says:
An Avatar rejecting the promotion of comparative studies, cannot be said
to be in accordance with the wisdom teachings of all ages past.
F)
Here are some quite telling HPB quotes opposing the J. Krishnamurti scheme
and present day scheme.
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy:
"Does the Spiritualist accept the verdict and act on the conclusion?
Verily, no. He refuses to organize." (p. 32)
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy about the T.S.:
"A very poor specimen, indeed, as at present, and, until carefully sifted
and reorganized, no better than all others. Remember, however, that human
nature is the same in the Theosophical Society as out of it. Its members are
no saints: they are at best sinners trying to do better, and liable to
fall back owing to personal weakness." .... " Besides which, it is in a
chaotic condition, and as unjustly unpopular as is no other body. What wonder,
then, that those members who fail to carry out its ideal should turn, after
leaving the Society, for sympathetic protection to our enemies, and pour all
their gall and bitterness into their too willing ears! Knowing that they
will find support, sympathy, and ready credence for every accusation, howe
ver absurd, that it may please them to launch against the Theosophical
Society, they hasten to do so, and vent their wrath on the innocent
looking-glass, which reflected too faithfully their faces. People never forgive
those whom they have wronged. " (p. 256)
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy about our enemies!:
"I do not call the enemies we have had to battle with during the first
nine or ten years of the Society's existence either powerful or "dangerous";
but only those who have arisen against us in the last three or four years.
And these neither speak, write nor preach against Theosophy, but work in
silence and behind the backs of the foolish puppets who act as their visible
marionnettes. Yet, if invisible to most of the members of our Society, they
are well known to the true "Founders" and the protectors of our Society.
But they must remain for certain reasons unnamed at present. "
.......
"I never said I knew them. I may or may not know them, but I know of them,
and this is sufficient; and I defy them to do their worst. They may
achieve great mischief and throw confusion into our ranks, especially among the
faint-hearted, and those who can judge only by appearances. They will not
crush the Society, do what they may. Apart from these truly dangerous enemies
à "dangerous," however, only to those Theosophists who are unworthy of the
name, and whose place is rather outside than within the T. S.Ã the number
of our opponents is more than considerable. " (p. 272)
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy about our enemies!:
"We have to contend against (1) the hatred of the Spiritualists, American,
English, and French; (2) the constant opposition of the clergy of all
denominations; (3) especially the relentless hatred and persecution of the
missionaries in India; (4) this led to the famous and infamous attack on our
Theosophical Society by the Society for Psychical Research, an attack which
was stirred up by a regular conspiracy organized by the missionaries in
India. Lastly, we must count the defection of various prominent (?) members,
for reasons I have already explained, all of whom have contributed their
utmost to increase the prejudice against us. " (p. 274)
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy
"Our enemies profit to this day by our mistake. The most recent book
directed against our teachings is alleged to have been written by an Adept of
twenty years' standing. Now, it is a palpable lie. We know the amanuensis and
his inspirers (as he is himself too ignorant to have written anything of
the sort). These "inspirers" are living persons, revengeful and unscrupulous
in proportion to their intellectual powers; and these bogus Adepts are not
one, but several. The cycle of "Adepts," used as sledge-hammers to break
the theosophical heads with, began twelve years ago, with Mrs. Emma Hardinge
Britten's "Louis" of Art Magic and Ghost-Land, and now ends with the
"Adept" and "Author" of The Light of Egypt, a work written by Spiritualists
against Theosophy and its teachings." (...p. 302)
H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy
"Many Branches of the Society have been formed in various parts of the
world, and new ones are constantly being organized. Each branch frames its own
bye-laws and manages its own local business without interference from
Head-quarters; provided only that the fundamental rules of the Society are not
violated. " (...p. 320)
G)
Mary Lutyens told about J. Krishnamurti' s views:
"He was quoted in Mary Lutyens book as saying to the general secretary of
the Theosophical Society for
Wales, the following statement: "He told us that he had never been able to
read a Theosophical book in His life -
could not understand our Theosophical jargon and, although he had heard
many Theosophical lectures, none _ of
them had convinced him of their knowledge or truth."
(" Life and Death of Krishnamurti " by Mary Lutyens, p. 71 )
H)
J.J. van der Leeuw on the J. Krishnamurti conflict
Try also the phamplet by J.J. van der Leeuw on the J. Krishnamurti
conflict:
"Revelation or Realization: The Conflict in Theosophy" by J.J. van der
Leeuw, LL.D.(Amsterdam: N.V. Theosofische Vereeniging Uitgevers Maatschappij,
1930)
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.alpheus._
(http://www.alpheus./) org/html/ source_materials /krishnamurti/ leeuw.html
***
Conclusion:
The fact that he allowed himself to be called Maitreya - World Teacher and
Messiah for at least 4 years if not for 18 years or more without really
counter-acting it - aught to tell you something. And the fact that Annie
Besant as the leader of TS and even the Esoteric Section allowed it, aught also
to tell you something. - Now why this persistent clinging to a doctrine at
TS Adyar, which seeks to picture Annie besant as a great theosophical
leader, when we all KNOW it is not in accordance with the Truth???
Annie Besants involvement in the whole affair aught to be taken into
account on the TS Adyar website.*
In the period fram 1909-1929 Annie Besant was a staunch promoter of
something else than theosophical teachings, namely a Messiah-craze cult, with
so-called theosophists wearing a Yellow Shawl, Purple Shawl with - the J.K.
insignia, - and silver badges on a purple ribbon, and thereby effectively
destroying any kind of comparative studying.
The motto of the Theosophical Society is still, I do hope:
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH.
***
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: preethi muthiah
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Dear Morten and friends,
My view is that the Messiah craze was and is something that belongs to
those who 'follow" the teachers. The teachers themselves, whether it was the
Masters of the Wisdom or HPB or Krishnaji, never adhered to that concept.
Which is why the Masters say in their Letters to APS that we ought to be
faithful to the Idea rather than to have merely a personal feeling for Them.
That is essentially what JK also taught all his life. He refused to be a
messiah.
I think it is important for us to realize that with the advent of the
Aquarian Age we are expected to learn to think for ourselves, to develop our
own inner intelligence. The Buddha of the previous Age, Gautama Buddha, said
the same thing when telling us to be a lamp unto ourselves. This stress or
emphasis on developing our own intuitive mind is seen throughout the
teachings of all teachers who came after the Buddha.
Fraternally
Preethi
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet.
dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 1:40 PM
Dear Preethi and friends
My views are:
Yes, they often expressed the same views in the main although there were
certain vital differences - i.e. if we take HPB, CWL, Besant and JK. - And
as always we "cull the good we find in each".
Yet when we deal with the Messiah-craze I cannot find any middle-ground.
Either you understand that is was not theosophical or you do not! TS Adyar
has since the adwent of the J. Krishnamurti cult accepted and even
maintained this messiah-Craze - in clear visible opposition - to the original
programe and theosophical teachings given by H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters. A
programe was given by the TS founders in 1875 fighting ANY dogma, and a
programe seeking to create a synthesis of the core teachings of all world
religions, and seeking to END the strife between them, and not promoting this
strife. TS Adyars leadership have since 1908 or 1909 not clearly distanced
themselves from this Messiah-craze and sought to end the strife between
fractions and instead promoted a synthesis teaching. It seems clear when
reading their present day TS Adyar website.
The theosophical teachings cannot be promoted through a muddle
Messiah-craze doctrine. We aught to recognized the truth when it is proven to us. Do
you not agree?
In 1887 HPB further said in Le Lotus:
"In carnalizing the central figure of the New Testament, in imposing the
dogma of the Word made flesh, the Latin Church sets _ up a doctrine
diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu Esotericism and the Greek
Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss between the East and the
West, as long as neither of these dogmas yields. Almost 2,000 years of
bloody persecution against Heretics and Infidels by the Church looms before the
Oriental nations to prevent them from renouncing their philosophic
doctrines in favor of that which degrades the Christos principle."
.......
"by localizing and isolating this great Principle, and denying it to any
other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the Nazar), carnalize the Christos of
the Gnostics; that alone prevents them having any point in common with the
disciples of the Archaic Wisdom."
.......
"true Theosophists will never accept either a Christ made Flesh".
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah_
(http://www.katinkah/) _ esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v8/y1887_ 048.htm
- - - - - - -
The main point is:
Now we just need to exchange the words "Latin Church" or "Christian" from
the above quotes with the "TS Adyar Krishnamurti Church" and "Jesus of
Nazareth" with "J. Krishnamurti" - and - all begin to wear a Yellow Shawl,
Purple Shawl with - the J.K. insignia, - and silver badges on a purple ribbon -
as they did in Annie Besants "supreme" reign - and we are all ready to
follow the Messiah-craze promoted and maintained in TS-Adyar! ( Se also Mary
Lutyens - 1. Krishnamurti: The Years of Awakening, p.38)
TS Adyar aught to delete or at least change some of the words on Annie
Besant at its present website:
The following from the TS Adyar webiste can hardly be said to be in
accordance with the true theosophical spirit and the original theosophical
programe:
"She gave a great lead in making Theosophy practical, urging members to
theosophize the various fields: religious, social, economic, political. " ( _
(http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.ts-_ (http://www.ts-/)
adyar.org/ history.html )
I hold the following to be a more true view:
"She gave a lead, [though theosophically speaking not without some vital
faults], in making Theosophy practical, urging members to theosophize the
various fields: religious, social, economic, political. [Despite that her
promotion af a World Teacher and Messiah named J. Krishnamurti was in clear
opposition to the theosophical teachings original programe, she succeeded in
doing a lot of good work to help and relieve suffering around the world.
And her actitivies, books a writings and letters on theosophical subjects are
evidences on this.]"
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN THE TRUTH.
Do you understand me?
- - - - - - -
What is unclear it me and others are, where the limits the Theosophical
Society operates within really are. And TS as such have through the time been
tested in this regard, and continues to be tested. This is the law of life.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: preethi muthiah
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Perhaps if one went beyond the words these teachers used, one would
realize that they meant the same thing but because the teachings were given at
different periods of time, the words had to suit the receiving populations
readiness.
Individualization and self-reliance in matters spiritual are emphasized by
all the teachers mentioned in this discussion.. .and yet that is the one
thing the current administration of the TS would stop us from growing into
and realizing... the immensity of the human potential cannot be curtailed
and any attempts to do so are futile...there will always be some one person
who will find the courage to resist an attempt to curtail the speaking of
the truth...whether that person was HPB or JK or Ramana Maharshi...
If the TS of today seeks to fulfill its purpose of existence, it must be a
forum where such expression can_ find expression.. .unfortunately,
intolerance is practised at all levels...
Fraternally
Preethi
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet.
dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 11:51 AM
Dear John
My views are:
Maybe this posting by you on the topic of "atoms" in response to my talk
about the Krishnamurti cult and pseudo-Messiahs from this thread will show
you it all more clearly:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _
yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 52952
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Morten Nymann Olesen
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Dear John
I can use both links.
The links are e-mails - in this thread - created by me on the J.
krishnamurti issue, and, are both of them useful in the sense, that they describe my
views on the crisis in TS Adyar. They have not necessarily anything to do
with you or any particular person at this forum. I was simply answering
Preethi's e-mail in this thread. Okay?
I wil repeat MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS:
"With the advent of Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its day,
and
sees its doom."
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah_
(http://www.katinkah/) _ esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_ 027.htm
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.blavatsk_
(http://www.blavatsk/) y.net/blavatsky/ arts/ModernApost lesAndPseudoMess iahs.htm
The AIM of the theosophical teachings are to create a universal
brotherhood, and thereby of course seek to do as HPB puts it:
"The chief aim of the Founder. of the Eclectic Theosophical School was one
of the three objects of its modern successor, the Theosophical Society,
namely, to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system
of ethics, based on eternal verities. " (The Key to Thesophy, 2. ed. , p.
2-3)
M. Sufilight asks:
Now how that can come about by using J. Krishnamurti' s teachings as the
main ones I cannot see. And how can one reconcile anything by promoting a
Messiah-craze (through Annie Besant and Leadbeater)? And by continously
maintaining a Messiah-craze by accepting Annie Besant version herof until this
day?
And TS Adyar as always remain silent to these questions. These things are
appearntly no allowed to be told the TRUTH about.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Augoeides-222@ c_omcast.net
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Morten,
The first link you provided # 52950 as not a message I made, it was some
one else, but it wasn't me. Just to clarify a little bit of confusion.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 9:40:52 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an
Ongoing Process?
Dear Preethi and friends
My views are:
Maybe because nobidy really have answered or replied to my views about the
Krishanmurti cults persistent existence within TS Adyar, which according
to my views are in opposition to the original programe given by H. P.
Blavatsky and other theosophists.
I state a view on that in this thread
Here:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _
yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 52950 (1)
And here:
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://groups._ (http://groups./)
yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 52962 (2)
Instead I got an answer from John, who appearently disklied my two posts,
and who (in a to me somewhat unclear manner) started to ask questions about
H. P. Blavatsky's teachings, and to a certain extend sought to create
doubt about her teachings validity. Well, that is what I so far have perceived
his e-mails. Yet we are Seekers after Truth, so his honest approach aught
to be listened to and compared with H. P. Blavatsky's teachings, so it might
benefit various Seekers me and John included. That is unless someone knows
the picture on a higher level are will step in and teach about where we go
from here - in the land of Parabrahm and theosophical teachings.
- - -
Bottom line as far as I am concerned is: Either you accept the J.
Krishnamurti cult (and there by Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeaters promotions) or
you support H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters teachings. there is no middle
ground here. And TS Adyar aught to be made aware of it. Yet any theosophical
Seeker should of course question the original programes validity.
yet H. P. Blavatsky and her friends stated at the beggining of the
Theosophical Society's existence the following in thefirst preamble to the
formation of the organisation The Theosophical Society, that :
"Preamble of the T.S.
Dated October 30, 1875; reprinted in The Theosophical Forum, September
1947, pp. 515-18
The title of the Theosophical Society explains the objects and desires of
its founders: they seek "to obtain knowledge of the nature and attributes
of the Supreme Power and of the higher spirits by the aid of physical
processes." In other words, they hope, that by going deeper than modern science
has hitherto done, into the esoteric philosophies of ancient times, they may
be enabled to obtain, for themselves and other investigators, proof of the
existence of an "Unseen Universe," the nature of its inhabitants, if such
there be, and the laws which govern them and their relations with mankind.
What_ever may be the private opinions of its members, the society has no
dogmas to enforce, no creed to disseminate. It is formed neither as a
Spiritualistic schism, nor to serve as the foe or friend of any sectarian or
philosophic body. Its only axiom is the omnipotence of truth, its only creed a
profession of unqualified devotion to its discovery and propagation. In
considering the qualifications of applicants for membership, it knows neither
race, sex, color, country nor creed."
ETC., ETC.
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.theosoci_
(http://www.theosoci/) _ ety.org/pasadena /gfkforum/ ourdir.htm# Preamble% 20of%20the%
20T.S.
And H. P. Blavatsky said in her book the Key to Theosophy, 2. ed, 1890:
"The Theosophical Society was organized for the purpose of promulgating
the Theosophical doctrines, and for the promotion of the Theosophic life." (
p. 16).
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.phx-_ (http://www.phx-/)
ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm
While the Krishnamurti camp or cult agree upon another programe:
It was required that each member of the Theosophical Society agreed upon
being a member of The Order of the Star in the East (the cult promoting J.
Krishnamurti as a World Teacher and Messiah of the Age). Else the member
would be expelled.
Yet, we can nealy all of us agree upon, that the following given by H. P.
Blavatsky in the Theosophist as its Editor, or one named Spectator, by HPB
being allowed his/her article to be printed in the Theosophist:
MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS
"Wherever Theosophy spreads, there it is impossible for the deluded to
mislead, or the deluded to follow. It opens a new path, a forgotten philosophy
which has lived through the ages, a knowledge of the psychic nature of
man, which reveals alike the true status of the Catholic saint, and the
spiritualistic medium the Church condemns. IT GATHER REFORMERS TOGETHER, THROWS
LIGHT ON THEIR WAY, AND TEACHES THEM HOW TO WORK TOWARDS A DESIRABLE END
WITH MOST EFFECT, BUT FORBIDS ANY TO ASSUME A CROWN OR SECPTRE, and no less
delivers from a futile crown of thorns. Mesmerisms and astral influences fall
back, and the sky grows clear enough for higher light. It hushes the âLo
here! and lo there!â and declares the Christ, like the kingdom of heaven, to
be within. It guards and applies every aspiration and capacity to serve
humanity in any man and shows him how. It overthrows the giddy pedestal, and
safely cares for the human being on solid ground. Hence, in
this way, and in all other ways, it is the truest deliverer and saviour of
our time.
To enumerate the various âMessiahsâ and their beliefs and works would
fill volumes. It is needless. When claims conflict, all, on the face of it,
cannot be true. Some have taught less error than others. It is almost the
only distinction. And some have had fine powers imperilled and paralysed by
leadings they did not understand.
Of one thing, rationally-minded people, apart from Theosophists, may be
sure. And that is, service for humanity is its all-sufficient reward; and
that empty jars are the most resonant of sound. To know a very little of the
philosophy of life, of manâs power to redeem wrongs and to teach others, to
perceive how to thread the tangled maze of existence on this globe, and to
accomplish aught of lasting and spiritual benefit, is to annihilate all
desire or thought of posing as a heaven-sent saviour of the people. For a very
little self-knowledge is a leveller indeed, and more democratic than the
most ultra-radical can desire. The best practical reformers of the outside
abuses we have known, such as slavery, deprivation of the rights of woman,
legal tyrannies, oppressions of the poor, have NEVER dreamed of posing as
Messiahs. Honor, worthless as it is, followed them unsought, for a tree is
known by its fruits, and to this day âtheir works do follow
them."
.......
"With the advent of Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its day,
and sees its doom."
(signed SPECTATOR).
_______
A few comments:
As long as Ts Adyar's halls speak a loud SILENCE on this and as long as TS
Adyar are quite unwilling to CLEARLY distance it self from the
Krishnamurti cult and those who un the past unjustly promoted it - As well as those
who unjustly promote it know, I will have to reject that they can have any
claim on following the original programe as it was given in 1875 by HPB and
others - Masters included, and I will have to reject that they follow a
program qhich can at all be called healthy unless you will call the
theosophical teachings of all ages a Messiah cult. - And because of that they do not
deseve to wear the name The Theosophical Society on the front of their
Crowns and on their secptres. - These are my views and if I am wrong then
please, please let me know.
So a tree is known on its fruits, is it not?
And we aught to recognize the truth when it is proven to us, allright?
So are you and others saying, that TS Adyar with its near total acceptance
of Annie Besant's teachings and from this also near total acceptance of
CWL's and J. Krishnamurti' s teachings - are showing such fruits and
activities as the above article mentions???
What I am saying is, that when they can accept the J. Krishnamurti cult
and its promoters, why do they not also endorse other similar present day
Messiah cults on the globe?
The continous - No Answer - attitude in TS Adyar circles to this issue
reveals to me, that they are not honest Seekers, but merely believers,
followers and especially promoters of BELIEF and not promoters of knowledge and
visdom. And this the theosophical teachings clealry rejects!
M. Sufilight
Messages in this topic (42) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
Messages
MARKETPLACE
Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families,
for the world and for each other
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest _| Switch
format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity
a.. 4New Members
Visit Your Group
Ads on Yahoo!
Learn more now.
Reach customers
searching for you.
Group Charity
Stop Cyberbullying
Keep your kids
safe from bullying
Weight Management Group
on Yahoo! Groups
Join the challenge
and lose weight.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. _
(http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://in.yahoo.http://in._ (http://in.yahoo.com/trynew) _
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Back to Top]
Theosophy World:
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application
