Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00103)

Dear Brad and friends

My views are:

Thank you for you answer.
You asked a few questions, and I will seek to answer them doing my best.



1.

Brad, you asked:
"No. Of course I do not see the building of prisons a proper theosophical activity. However, if a government, in which the society was active, was imprisoning,
murdering,or otherwise commitin evil and unjust activities, against helpless people,would we not have an obligation to attempt to counteract evil and
brutality? "


M. Sufilight says:
First question:
Yes. So the question will be how will you counter act this kind of evil and brutality without prisons? - And the question was whether it aught to be done through a certain kind of democracy, with laws written and signed on paper, courts, police and prisons to be a natural theosophical activitiy?

And now you seem to have left prisons are out. Does that mean that you will let the mass-murderers and revolutionaries run loose around in the Streets so the evil regime you picture might be done with?

My question is basically: Where do you go from there, when you agree with the idea that Theosophical Society could get involved with politics?

2.
Brad, you asked:
"Of course in answering your question, I have taken a rather rhetorical position. I don't know the answer to your original post, as I am a member of
a different fraternity ,I wouldn't know the laws and by-laws of the T.S. but, as fraternally-involved aspirants to the Mysteries,it seems a certain amount of
civil-responsibility "goes with the territory",should it not? And, after all, was that not the jist of your posting?"

M. Sufilight says:
Second + third question.
Yes a rhetorical position.
I do hope you will find the below two links helpful. And thank you for asking so the info can become part of this thread.

First the Rules and Regulations, which you seemed to ask for...
The "Full Text Of The International Rules And Regulations" are online here according to TS America - although they seem to be of a later date: 
http://www.theosophyforward.com/2009/06/full-text-of-the-international-rules-and-regulations-memorandum-of-association/

The CONSTITUTION AND RULES
OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, jan. 1891
http://www.global-theosophy.net/ts_constitution_rules.php

The difference since H. P. blavatsky died might be helpful to consider.
Why this difference with regard to Article XIII, Offence 1 - has been created I would really like to know about. Because it seems as if the TS has gone from being non-political to being quite fussy about tis political stance or rather politically involved through Annie Besants new area of activity. And this without clearly officially stating why such a far-reching change has been necessary.

And third question: 
Yes, that was my question. The above links should get you started. And the whole Internet have a huge amount of information related to this issue one way or the other.

- - -
3.
Brad wrote:
"What my post said that would lead you to
counter with "should we be building prisons,etc", seems a bit of a stretch. Throughout history,in many lands the students of occultism have played an active part in trying to help guide people and even nations. You spoke of Besant,
look at the lifes of F. Bacon and Cmt. St. Germain, Plato, Pythagoras etc.,etc. I guess I only wish those who were better fitted to lend guidance(occultists),
actually were willing and able to do  so to a greater extent."

M. Sufilight says:
Yes. The important difference and word is here "guidance" from Masters and Chelas.
Because there seem to be a clear difference between the "guidance" mentioned by you and seeking to create the Constitution for India and its Independance/Self-Government, which happended under Annie Besants leadership of the TS as well as the National Congress of India.

And the question still remains whether TS today and during Annie Besants days were in fact a sub-group of a political party (The Congress Party?) or just politically involved and to what extend compared with 1891?


- - - - - - -
The following earliere posts from Theos-talk might be helpful in reaching closer to an answer:

>>>About Swimmers and Learning How to Swim*<<<

The ordinary man repents his sins:
The elect repent of their headlessness.
(Dhu'l-Nun Misri)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13178

- - -

Would you mind telling me what fraternity you belong to?



M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Crawford 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:02 AM
  Subject: Theos-World Re:


    
  Morten,
  No. Of course I do not see the building of prisons a proper theosophical activity. However, if a government, in which the society was active, was imprisoning,
  murdering,or otherwise commitin evil and unjust activities, against helpless people,would we not have an obligation to attempt to counteract evil and
  brutality?Of course in answering your question, I have taken a rather rhetorical position. I don't know the answer to your original post, as I am a member of
  a different fraternity ,I wouldn't know the laws and by-laws of the T.S. but, as fraternally-involved aspirants to the Mysteries,it seems a certain amount of
  civil-responsibility "goes with the territory",should it not? And, after all, was that not the jist of your posting? What my post said that would lead you to
  counter with "should we be building prisons,etc", seems a bit of a stretch.
  Throughout history,in many lands the students of occultism have played an active part in trying to help guide people and even nations. You spoke of Besant,
  look at the lifes of F. Bacon and Cmt. St. Germain, Plato, Pythagoras etc.,etc. I guess I only wish those who were better fitted to lend guidance(occultists),
  actually were willing and able to do  so to a greater extent.
  I'll butt-out.
  in L.V.X.
  brad

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